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Oh that we all would weep

The nastiness of the gender debate in the church can be seen in microcosm in a post and comment thread at Denny Burk on the words of Bruce Ware. Lydia sums it up:

The whole issue of authority/submission has become an idol. Everyone is talking about who is in charge, who has authority, who is not submissive, etc. Careers are built around this issue in Christendom.


Why aren't the men talking about being the most humble servant? Or a bondservant like Paul?


Instead, the whole focus is on a woman's 'role', her place and being submissive and the sin of being unsubmissive. Even to the point of teaching that she has to do a work to be saved: Childbirth. No matter how they spin it, that is what is being taught.


It makes me weep for all of us.

The focus is also upon a man's role, suggesting that he not be a wimp and instead stand up and be a leader. This does not, however, mean demanding or even expecting unilateral submission from a woman. Both men and women need to lead by being strong in the Lord and standing up for (and doing) what is right.

Jim West sums up Ware.

If it's sinful for women to 'desire to have their own way' why isn't it sinful for men too?

I pointed out this double standard in both the thread at Denny Burk and one at Suzanne's bookshelf, and no one responded to it directly. There was, however, an attempt to obfuscate, reverse the blame, and say that this wasn't really what Ware was saying (i.e., that others were misinterpreting him). If that's not really what he meant, then he shouldn't have said it! Here's what he said:

What happens in sin is that that very wise and good plan of God, of male headship, is sought to be overturned as women now, as sinners, want instead to have their way, instead of submitting to their husbands, to do what they would like to do, and, really, seek to work to have their husbands fulfill their will, rather than serving them;


and the husbands on their parts, because they're sinners, now respond to that threat to their authority either by being abusive, which is, of course, one of the ways men can respond when their authority is challenged, or, more commonly, to become passive, acquiescing and simply not asserting the leadership they ought to as men in their homes and in churches.

(A link to this message can be found in Mr. Burk's post. The excerpt quoted is about 9 minutes in.)

It is not wrong for a woman to want to have her way, or even to work to have her husband fulfill her will, unless this is the only, or the predominant, thing she does in relationship to him. Of course she should also serve her husband and seek to help him fulfill his will as much as it is right and proper. Likewise, a loving husband will be concerned with his wife's will and desire that it be honored insofar as is right and proper. I suppose this might be thought an egalitarian notion, and therefore someone might say to me, "Then what does it mean for a husband to be a head and a wife to submit to him?"

I would answer that I think it has to do with the woman being made from man for man; not that man was made first, but that woman was made from man, for man. I do not believe that a husband can fully achieve God's purposes for him unless he has the help of his wife on all fronts -- spiritual, physical, mental, emotional. In other words, all of her given to all of him. This is why God made woman for man, because none of the animals was a suitable helper, and it was not good that man should be alone (Genesis 3:18, 20-24). Likewise, a wife cannot fully achieve God's purposes for her unless her husband is loving her as his own body (Ephesians 5:25-33).

Comments

great post, great comments, thanks for it. My wife and I co-Pastor a Church here on the South Rim of the Grand Canyon and since I am working on licensing stuff, she is already fully ordained and so is officially the Senior Pastor (or in modern terms, the lead Pastor) and I am perfectly fine with that!

Posted by: Brian at June 28, 2008 7:03 PM

My brain is semi-fried, so I have nothing really poignant to say. But you rock, Bonnie! ;-)

Posted by: Keer at June 28, 2008 11:37 PM

Excellent excellent post, Bonnie.

Posted by: Molly at June 29, 2008 12:36 AM

Thanks, you all, for your comments.

Keer, good to "see" you! How've you been? Thanks for stopping by.

Posted by: Bonnie at June 29, 2008 3:06 PM

Bonnie,
I think that whatever we believe, whether we believe a woman should submit unilaterally, or both spouses should submit mutually, what Bruce Ware seems to overlook is the fact that "wanting one's own way" is sin. Period.
A man is commanded to love sacrificially, as Christ loved the church.

I wish these Comp. teachers would study 1 Corinthians 13 a bit more in depth, and the Gospels. Philippians 2 makes a good text for husbands...

But what really, really explained the complementarian position were the quotes that Suzanne brought in on Denny Burk's blog. The ones explaining that a man imitates Christ's headship and a woman imitates Christ's submission to the Father. That's when I wanted to cry.
Thanks for pointing out this very important aspect of Complementarian teaching.

Posted by: madame at June 29, 2008 6:00 PM

I agree, I agree and I agree with you Bonnie. Did I say I agree? :)

This is a terrific site and I will be adding it to my blog list. Thanks to all the thinking Christian women, which I wish were more. Scripture and Christianity are both for thinking people and the abuse of women among Evangelicals is appalling number wise. That indicates to me a problem with some of the teaching that is outside of what the Bible actually teaches, scripture interpreting scripture. This too makes me want to weep.

Posted by: Debbie Kaufman at June 30, 2008 12:48 AM

Wow. I love the quote from Lydia (?). I feel exactly the same - why all this hullabaloo about making sure the women are "in line" when there seems to be no talk about servant leadership and humility and respect and living with wives with understanding and gentleness ...

Posted by: Carole at July 2, 2008 3:29 PM

Thanks for the post, Bonnie, and for your concluding paragraph that brings it all into better balance.

I firmly hold to the complementarian position, but only understood within the context that Christ is the example for both husbands and wives, either as submissive to the head or leading through serving.

Because of the way God has uniquely made us as male and female, a husband is at his best best when he has a wife he can lead who he knows will both depend on him and defer to him. A wife is at her best when she knows she has a husband who is committed to her and shows that he values her above all. Both require submission, but one form is valued by the world and the other is denigrated, depending on the times.

In our culture and even in Christian circles, this delicate balance is rarely right. Some generations demand wifely submission, others demand female intependence. We see this ebb and flow in Christian circles where we are told that a godly home depends on a wife submitting to her husband in all things, or as the pendulum swings back, that the godly home hinges on the husband being a selfless servant to his wife and family.

Both are submission, but God has ordained different forms depending on our created order. Therein lies the rub. No one by nature likes to defer to another, and this world system reinforces the idea that no one should have to. But when we jettison the world's power-play baggage and do it God's way, the results bring us marriage relationships that are beyond anything we could ask or imagine.

We would do better not to wrangle with words as much as to wrestle with our hearts and do what God has individually purposed for us.

Posted by: Scott W at July 10, 2008 7:44 PM
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