Intellectuelle

Its sad to see traditional symbols like the cross being under attack but the "religious right," has done the same thing, things, perhaps, more sinister. Things like adding torture to our national fabric and termination of habeus corpus.

I do not agree.

The practice of the Christian religion has never added "torture to our national fabric and termination of habeus corpus". Christians are not responsible for torture in our nation- they would be jailed like anyone else. If you are referring to the situation of Guantanamo or Gitmo how is that laid on the doorstep of "the religious right" and their desire to restore a chapel to its original historical intent? Or anything else in the name of religious rights and freedoms? And if you are referring to something else...what pray tell?

You are talking about government policy- a government made up of Republicans and Democrats who decide how to handle the war on terror- and that is not simply a "religious right" issue. At least it wasn't when 911 was fresh in peoples minds. I don't know how you want to look at it today.

So what "more sinister" things are being referred to? And is this not simply a deflection of the fact that those who seek to excise Christian symbol and history from the face of the earth are truly engaged in a Maoist-like Cultural Revolution endeavor?

The neocons in charge are there because of the religious rights voting block, yes or no? It was Cheney who publicly pointed out that we must "sort of work the dark side." If democrats were responsible for our torture then I would be just as critical of them. There is more to our torture than gitmo. The president supports our overseas secrete prisons and "alternative sets of procedures." Why hasn't the US apologized to the Canadian we sent to syria to be tortured, Arar? Who can say, furthermore just whats happening to the Iranian we took from Ibril. Are we currently hooking up electrodes? Read this about a girl from Utah who didn't believe we torture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyssa_Peterson

Do you really imagine the "religious rights voting block" being so powerful all on their own? Take another look at what it takes to make the majority in this country, Russ.

All of wars activities are cruel. 911 was cruel. What Islamists do to helpless women blamed for "adultery" and gays is cruel. Saddam Hussein's treatment of many was cruel torture. And you want me to ascribe the harsh realities of war to the "religious right" Sorry, no go.

I don't like the no win situation of double standards that the Left is presently advocating. We walk into war with our hands tied, but the Muslims do no wrong... at least *relatively* *comparatively* with all excuse guns fully firing all rounds......

I am not so naive to say our government doesn't do inhumane things. But we are ruled by law here in this country, and the wheels of justice do turn -however slowly- in such matters.

This discussion has NOTHING to do with the wholesale removal of Christian emblems that is being pursued in the public venue by many cloaked with their so-called "secular" advocacy. That is what the post was about.

Are you trying to excuse that with a red herring about war policies?

This discussion I thought had to do with taking away things that are dear to our country. I'll let it drop. I know full well how bad our enemies are and indeed much worse but we are to take the high road. We shouldn't have let Bush change the Geneva Convention-here I go and I said I'd let it drop, sorry. One small thing, the habeus corpus. You know that thanks to Bush people sitting at Gitmo are never legally to even brought to a trial to see if their guilty or not, and remember many of them were not taken off a field of battle and were handed over to the US by warlords who wanted the turn in money and had revenge on the person in mind.
It seems we aren't likely to see I to eye on any of this so I'll stop pestering you. Thanks though for your kind responses.