Intellectuelle

I'm just outside of London, and yes, we have lots of organic box schemes here. I used to have a standard order with one, but not at the moment since I now have a garden - maybe I'll re-join later this winter. You certainly don't have to be a snob to join up, but I suppose there's that perception.

I am not entirely convinced of some of the claims of the more apocalyptic end of organic movement, and I am not sure about the basic assumptions of fairtrade either, but I approve in broad terms of organic food and farming, especially as part of Distributivism / Christian Agrarianism / Crunchy Conservatism.

I would say that by and large a Christian has 'good stewardship' and non-cruelty (in the reasonable sense, not the PETA sense) responsibilities towards the earth, and to a reasonable extent has a responsibility to take care of his or her body, other resposibilities being taken into account. However, I think mainstream culture is now so biased in favour of a pagan worship of physical health that a Christian's 'reasonable care for one's personal health' is quite minimal by mainstream cultural standards.

I believe in fasting and feasting. Organic seasonal eating fits this very well! Vegetarianism or veganism is OK as long as it is no more than a preference or voluntary abstention from an acknowledged good; I don't hold with the view that eating meat or animal products is inherently sinful or unclean, which is typical of some vegetarians and a lot of vegans.

I'm in Houston, and my standard grocery store does a good job stocking organic products. The organic meats, eggs, breads and noodles are at a competitive price, though the veggies could usually stand a lower price to be competitive and they are a little sparse on organic fruits.

Just by way of love of nature, I'd rather have organic foods -- I think it's the way God meant us to enjoy them and they do taste good. I expect "stewardship" is mainly love of nature in action.

Take care & God bless
Anne

I agree with Atlatnic said.

I'll also add that we are blessed to be able to care about whether our food is organic or not. To lots of people a loaf of 59 cent white bread and bologna are staples of their diet because that's all they can afford.

I try to remember to be thankful for the bounty that allows me to make healtheir choices.

"I'd rather have organic foods -- I think it's the way God meant us to enjoy them and they do taste good."
Amen, Annie. That's a good summary of my rationale for going organic, too. As a vegetarian-by-preference - only for a short while for moral reasons - I'm really not sure if free-range is such a big deal. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like people are trying to sympathize with animals when we don't have that mandate implied in "have dominion over all creation."

Lexie, you're right - I think one objective of the organics market, and I'm in no way informed about the possibility of this, should be to make the stuff as affordable as it can be. HEB's organic line (Central Market) is the best I know of, price-wise.I know a lot of organic companies up the prices in order to donate a percentage of profits to their chosen organization, wildlife reserve, whatever. My sister likes a cereal with a promise on the box that never fails to amuse me: "10% of All Profits Donated to Peace." Just...peace. For all we know, that could be the name of a middle-aged hippie in Manhattan.

Not to get off topic, but this brings to mind an odd pet peeve: has anybody ever realized that if we weren't such gluttons, there wouldn't have to be abominations like skim milk?

First, I agree with everything Atlantic said, so why repeat it all again?

Second, Laura, since I quit being such a glutton and lost 30 pounds, I no longer buy skim milk. We now buy whole (8% fat by volume) unpasterized milk. And then eat reasonable portions.

Third, I'd love to buy organic but the price of conventional produce in urban Korea is often HIGHER priced than organic produce in the US. For example, I pay $5 for two pounds of non-organic beans, and currently one zucchini costs $2 or more. You don't even want to know how high the organic prices are. I just can't afford them now.

Laura,
I happen to like skim milk WAY better than other kinds of milk. :-)
(And this from someone who will put peanut butter on carrots, apples, etc. sometimes for no better reason than that it adds extra calories).

I don't like regular milk, but I just discovered that I like soy milk. The kind from Costco: Vanilla Silk. But it has to be chilled. I'm not so much into the organic schtick (probably because it's so Marin and I'm a rebel), but I am taking steps to be a better steward of our (my family's and my) bodies by trying to eat more fresh foods, whole grains and less animal fat/protein. Salt and sugar remain my biggest weaknesses, though.

I love to blog about food (second to God probably), so Ashley, I dare you to plug an ingredient into the search box on my blog--you know something random like tuna or olives or butter or... :)

I'll testify to the idea of eating LESS and eating better. We drink only whole milk, eat whole fat foods and are not overweight.

My motto is: I only eat foods God created. And we do eat as organically as possible, though I admit with the adolescent males in my house, cost is a factor! I make everything I can from scratch.

Marla brings up a good point -- the way the community around affects how we eat. For instance in the Bay Area, organic is 'hip' and 'liberal' I imagine, so eating organically looks like one buys into all that. Like Atlantic said, there's loads of box schemes for fruit and veg in the UK but I don't think there's an overwhelmingly huge market for them and thus those people who do eat organic, etc are probably more akin in views to Marla's neighbours in Marin.

So what do we do as Christians? Try to differentiate ourselves (eat organic cuz neighbours don't or vice versa) or do we do what we think is right regardless of "the world"?

Laura, could you explain this a bit better??: "As a vegetarian-by-preference - only for a short while for moral reasons - I'm really not sure if free-range is such a big deal. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like people are trying to sympathize with animals when we don't have that mandate implied in "have dominion over all creation."' I think I know what you mean but some of it makes me jump in reaction against it and I'd rather you explained more first, before I reply. :)

Inorganic food is just *sooo* hard to digest. ;-)

It's not Chrisitian ... but this book might whet your whistle ... The Hungry Soul.

Ashley, I should clarify - I am not *primarily* a vegetarian for moral reasons, though I am not apathetic toward the treatment of animals; I was more clearing myself from Atlantic's characterization of people who use their convictions about it as a strict basis for judgment. Second, I want to be careful about supporting the organizations that have clearly gone overboard and are blind to the irony of "humane treatment of animals." Do they actually mean that we should treat animals like humans in every important respect? It seems to be the majority opinion, even if not all of them think that way. Here's an interesting article about so-called free range farms - it would be disappointing indeed if that's all we're supporting when we buy free range.

Thanks Laura for clearing that up a bit (that's what I figured you meant) and for the article link; I agree, there are a number of organisations which make too much of animal life -- making it that which is sacred. Re your article, I have also wondered if "free range" is really all that we think it is and so hope to get our own food when we can from local companies (such as Grow Wild) and asking questions about where local butchers are getting their meat. I think we do have a responsibility to oppose things like factory farming; there's a great blog post on that subject from a friend here, Sheena; she's blogged about Christians and cheap chicken.

My comment has nothing to do with *our* choices as to vegetarian/organic/anti-lactose, etc... But I would like to broaden discussion a bit into the food choices of the third and fourth world.

Fact of the matter is that without frankenfood (for discussion purposes: Genetically modified organisms/GMO, fertilized, and hybrid), MILLIONS would starve and food cost would probably exceed housing. Coupled with the lack of scientific/public health evidence that GMO causes health issues leads me to support its use. I think many Christians and Westerners speak from both sides of our mouths to insist on organic in our lifestyles while we enjoy the other comforts of (post) modernity.

That being said, the author himself enjoys organic food - the point is that as far as a Christian worldview regarding this issues, I believe it is best to *prefer* these foods as our pleasure and not condemn frankenfood (ie, 95%+ food produced today). Nothing is wrong with making these food choices - I guess I want to agree that the attitude of thankfulness must prevail (as a previous post stated). GMO may indeed be God's providence to limit starvation. NONE of you appear to have taken the negative attitude, but I have recently had too many a person cross my way that want to promulgate this organic lifestyle to near religious proportions.

Maybe that is because I live in Colorado...but regardless, pride of food type as odd as it might sound, can be sinful as well.

FYI to vegetarians...that diet deprives 8 amino acids that your body cannot produce from limiting intake from the animal kingdom. Sure, the body adjusts and legumes help...but the biochemical lattice designed by the Creator suggests a need for a healthy balance. Or perhaps that's my approaching naturalistic materialism by assuming natural law found in biology. But hey, in the meantime, you will enjoy a much lower cholesterol level than I! :) Any thoughts?

MJ's comments are good. I'll add a thought and a question since Ashley let us be free to discuss in this thread.

I don't think that developing countries are always able to meet the standard of organic or even low-pesticide that highly developed countries are. They just don't have the resources. But then those less developed countries are restricted from exporting their produce because they don't meet the high standards of developing countries. This then makes it even more difficult for them to develop their economy and the cycle continues. I once heard someone say (can't remember who) that if we really wanted to help Africans, we wouldn't just send aid. We'd revise our laws so that they could export their agricultural products and thus compete internationally. When's the last time you saw anything in your supermarket from Africa?

This topic is beyond a lowly comment box, so I won't go on. Is it moral to require such a high standard for food that we block all developing countries from selling to us? If it were available, would you buy food from Africa even if you knew it had more pesticides than conventional produce?

MJ and Hannah, great thoughts. This is definitely something to think more about; obviously buying fair trade coffee and bananas doesn't alleviate the necessity for third world producers to make it as agrarians -- rather we're pigeonholing them into a few products.

MJ you also make a good point about how organic has become religious for some sectors of the country; I think that's what Atlantic was getting at with her stewardship rather than PETA comment (and Laura as well).

I will definitely keep pondering this issue. There's so much in it and yet I feel very much "on this side of heaven" regarding it as there's no perfect answer to help to satisfy/meet the needs of the poorest of the poor.