“Prison rape occupies a fairly odd space in our culture,” writes Ezra Klein, bringing to the fore a subject that is often ignored. “It is, all at once, a cherished source of humor, a tacitly accepted form of punishment and a broadly understood human rights abuse.”
We are justifiably outraged by the human rights abuses occurring in foreign lands. So why aren’t we more outraged by the atrocities here in our own country? Our reactions to the problem tend to range from smirking indifference to embarrassed silence. Yet rape and other forms of sexual assault are becoming endemic to our prison system.
In 2004 the corrections industry estimated that 12,000 rapes occurred per year—more than the annual number of reported rapes in Los Angeles, Chicago, and New York combined. In a 2007 survey by the U.S. Department of Justice, though, more than 60,000 inmates claimed to have been sexually victimized by other inmates during the previous 12 months.
First-time and non-violent offenders are often targeted by prison gangs for sexual servitude. Once an inmate is forced into sexually submissive role, becomes a ‘punk”, the gangs treat him as chattel. While prison guards turn a blind eye, the gangs use these men as sexual slaves.
Although the majority of these inmates are eventually returned back into the general public, their sentence could turn into a death penalty. HIV, tuberculosis, and hepatitis C are up to 10 times more prevalent in correctional institutions than in the outside population. The repeated abuse these inmates receive makes it almost inevitable that they will be exposed to one of these fatal diseases.
In contrast, when women are raped or assaulted in prison, it is usually by correctional employees. According to Lara Stemple, executive director of Stop Prisoner Rape, in some prisons up to 27 percent of female inmates are sexually abused. This also leads to a shockingly high rate of prison pregnancy which merely compounds the problems for the prisoners.
A Wisconsin inmate named Jackie Noyes, for example, was impregnated by a prison guard overseeing her and ordered to serve nearly a year of solitary confinement. The only punishment the guard, Matthew Emery, received was the loss of his job. (The Wisconsin legislature finally passed a law in 2003 making it a felony for prison and jail guards to have sex with inmates. The bill had been stalled for four years by the union that represented the prison guards.)
During his first term President Bush signed into law the Prison Rape Elimination Act, which calls for the gathering of national statistics, the development of guidelines for states about how to address prisoner rape, the creation of a review panel to hold annual hearings, and the provision of grants to states to combat the problem. After decades of ignoring sexual torture and abuse, the hearings have helped shine a light on the dark corners that had been hidden. As Klein notes:
These hearings are held annually. This year’s transcripts aren’t online yet, but in 2006 you could have heard a man named Clinton explain, “I had no choice but to enter into a relationship with another inmate in my dorm in order to keep the rest of them off of me. In exchange for his protection from other inmates, I had to be with him sexually any time he demanded it. It was so humiliating, and I often cried silently at night in my bed … but dealing with one is better than having 10 or more men demanding sex from you at any given time.”
The law is a start but what is needed more than any legislation is a change in attitude by the American public. While jokes about conventional rape are always considered in bad taste, humor about prison rape is common. Kleins points out a number of examples, including:
How about picking up “Don’t Drop the Soap,” a board game created by the son of Gov. Kathleen Sebelius of Kansas. The game “is simply intended for entertainment,” said Nicole Corcoran, the governor’s spokeswoman. What, after all, could be more entertaining then trying to “avoid being cornered by the Aryans in the shower room” (one of the goals of the game, according to its promotional material)?
How odd that we make jokes about actions that we would denounce if they occurred in other lands. The fact that so many Americans are appalled and angered by the human rights abuses in countries like Syria, Iraq, and China speaks well of our nation. But we must hold our own country to the same standards. We can’t look away from the sexual torture, assault, slavery, and abuses that are rampant in our own system. Concern for human right must extend beyond both the water’s edge and the prison doors.
For the last 4 or 5 years, I have had a friend who is serving time here in Oregon. Before becoming his friend (before he went to prison, but after he'd run afoul of the law), I had never really given prison conditions (including sexual abuse) a second thought.
However, as I corresponded with my friend in prison, I have begun to have more sympathy for the those in prison who suffer abuse and indignities that have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the crime they are being punished for.
It is a travesty that we -- as a society and a Christians -- turn a blind eye to this terrible state of affairs.
Surprises me that as worked up as progressives were over Abu Graib, there is no similar outrage among them for abuse in American prisons.
Matthew 25:36
If this were a post about water boarding, we would easily generate 100+ comments, but about prison rape, I will be surprised if we break 30. That's not to say that most people aren't opposed to prison rape, but it is to say that the level of outrage is several orders of magnitude lower. Threaten to water board Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, and everybody smells the whiff of fascism in the air, threaten to have Ken Lay gang raped and everybody has a good laugh. It's a sad commentary.
I started doing prison ministry last year and am glad for your article and the attention this topic has received. Prison sentences are to incarcerate people for a period of time, not to expose them to high risks of sexual assault. Prison rapists should have serious consequences for their actions. I'd entertain the possibility of capital punishment for it.
We Christians act as if people are no longer created in God's image once behind bars. Sad, isn't it? It's sadder, still, that there are a number of innocent people behind bars who are subjected to this kind of torture.
Joe,
Your right sidebar is still obscuring your text.
Your right sidebar is still obscuring your text.
You are probably using Internet Exploder 6.0 or earlier. Try upgrading to Firefox or IE 7.0.
Joe,
This may seem like a dumb question, but I'm the pastor of a fairly large church in the suburbs of Philly. What could our church do to help end this?
Brian Jones
www.brianjones.com
Joe,
This may seem like a dumb question, but I'm the pastor of a fairly large church in the suburbs of Philly. What could our church do to help end this?
Brian Jones
www.brianjones.com
Joe,
This may seem like a dumb question, but I'm the pastor of a fairly large church in the suburbs of Philly. What could our church do to help end this?
Brian Jones
www.brianjones.com
We Christians act as if people are no longer created in God's image once behind bars.
Back the bus up there, Bubba. Let's not make broad sweeping statements about all Christians. There are many Christians fighting for the rights of prisoners. Just because the level of outrage doesn't approach the level for water boarding doesn't mean it isn't there. I am far more outraged by the prison conditions, including abuse, for first time offenders than I am about a few terrorists getting water boarded. Imagine what would happen if we as a society got as outraged by a first time offender getting gang r*ped as we do by a terrorist getting water boarded.
This may seem like a dumb question, but I'm the pastor of a fairly large church in the suburbs of Philly. What could our church do to help end this?
Contact Prison Fellowship.
America's prisons are a disgrace. They neither punish nor rehabilitate. Instead, they are simply warehouses to keep criminals off the street for awhile until, for the most part, theyget out and reoffend. If prison was was truly punitive, we wouldn't tolerate criminal gang activity within the walls. What is punitive about allowing hard coare gangs to basically operate as they did on their home turf? What rehabilitative function do prisons serve? We have control of people for years at a time who are uneducated, have no values and can't function in society. What do prisons do with this opportunity? Why aren't they forcing the prisoners to become better people?
I just want to point out that rape is also a common occurance in juvenile detention centers.
ucfengr wrote: "Back the bus up there, Bubba. Let's not make broad sweeping statements about all Christians. There are many Christians fighting for the rights of prisoners..."
Last summer, I worked with the Pacific Justice Institute on, among other things, RLUIPA cases. So you're right; some Christians and some Christian organizations do fight for the rights of prisoners. Clearly, I wasn't speaking for ALL Christians, ucfengr, as if not one Christian cared about prisoners. But it seems irrefutable that the vast majority of Americans--Christians included--don't pay any attention to the rights of prisoners.
Imagine what would happen if we as a society got as outraged by a first time offender getting gang r*ped as we do by a terrorist getting water boarded.
Two sides of the same coin. You brush it off as "he probably deserves it". Many people brush it off thinking "can't do the time, don't do the crime". While the threat of rape may deter some people from committing crimes it doesn't alter the fact that it dehumanizes all of us and Joe is right to fight against it.
Clearly, I wasn't speaking for ALL Christians,
You may not of intended to come across that way, but when you say "We Christians...", it is not at all clear that you aren't attempting to speak for "ALL Christians".
Two sides of the same coin.
Not really, Booton. Water boarding isn't punishment (at least as we use it), it is a rarely used interrogation tactic. Prison r*pe, OTOH, is considered by many to be a part of the sentence, like crappy food and small cells.
Back in the 19th c. prison reform was a major LIBERAL venture. Maybe it's just the times, but they don't seem to care very much these days, unless it's wrapped in an opportunity to raise taxes or otherwise dismantle conservatism.
Collin
http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com/
Don Bosch, Collin Brendemuehl, ucfengr:
Maybe you missed it, but if you head on over to the ACLU's website you'll find that they've been on this issue a lot longer than Joe Carter-come-lately.
Mumon,
You're a real creep sometimes.
Everybody,
Another huge American problem is how the criminal justice system regularly railroads innocent people into jail and prison by coercing lower-class defendants into taking plea-bargains.
Add "innocent people in prison" to "gang-rape in prison" and you've got a tragedy of the highest proportions.
Matthew Goggins:
Awww...did I mess up your colleagues' game of bash the liberal strawman???
Too freakin' bad. You and your ilk and the Joe Carters created this mess in the first place. When you devalue life, making it equal to a zygote you get not only these types of horrors, but John Yoo, and more people incarcerated per capita than anywhere else.
This is a conservative-made mess in the first place, and the idea that George W. Bush's response - appoint a committee to study the problem! - is applauded by Carter just shows how debauched his morality has become.
Here's some links that should help provide perspective:
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0608-09.htm
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines/061100-01.htm
Mumon wrote
"This is a conservative-made mess in the first place, and the idea that George W. Bush's response - appoint a committee to study the problem! - is applauded by Carter just shows how debauched his morality has become."
I went and checked out your links Mumon. It's amazing that doing a google search on the site shows nothing about all the previous liberal have introduced hearings and bills in congress to do anything about prison rape.
Maybe you can point to another web site that will show how previous how much the previous liberal administrations have worked on this problem.
I'd be curious, since you show such passion - what do you propose we do about those who are commiting these rapes in prison?
I'd also like to know where you find any linkage between being pro-life and being pro-rape.
If you can't provide anything - maybe you ought to refrain from showing yourself an idiot.
"You're a real creep sometimes."
Are you referring to his comment #19, Matthew? I think it is well justified.
As I read Joe's post, my first thought was "I'm glad someone is talking about this." My second thought was "I should have been more concerned about this instead of just being quietly appalled."
Then I got to the comments that used the phenomenon as a club to strike liberals/progressives. That made me angry because the sentiments expressed are simultaneously transparent and dishonest. They are transparent because they obviously have more to do with throwing mud at one's ideological opponents than with addressing the problem. They are dishonest because they ignore what should be obvious, the fact that all people, progressives included, tend to voice their opinions about things that are "in the news." Prison rape is not in the news, unfortunately. That is part of the snickers and silence problem Joe alludes to.
Current events like Abu Graib and waterboarding and the Patriot act generate criticism because they are what people are talking about. Pretending that liberals don't care because the media are not awash with outrage is dishonest.
The people who tried to direct ire to progressives/liberals instead of addressing the problem needed a little cuff, and Mumon beat me to it.
Thank you for addressing this, Joe. The extent of prison rape is a real national disgrace and something that needs to be ended. It isn't a liberal versus conservative problem, though conservatives are more likely to send people to prison who really need medical treatment. Also, conservative states like Texas have a much worse problem.
ucfengr,
What about those of us who have to put up with our IE from work?
Alright, maybe I shouldn't be reading EO from work, but I do and darnit, I hate that dumb sidebar obscuring the text.
What about those of us who have to put up with our IE from work?
Fire your IT team and hire me. Seriously though, it always amazes me how many IT departments prefer to use an insecure and unsupported web browser like IE 6.0 rather than upgrade to 7.0 or even better, Firefox.
Thanks for broaching an untouched subject. This situation, as well as other problems in prison, make it an inherently inhuman form of punishment in my view. I don't know how folk can say the death penalty is inhuman, but sentencing someone to become a homosexual sex slave preserves human dignity. Surely there are better ways to deal with lawbreakers.
I passionately believe that any prisoner in prison for anything should be in his or her OWN CELL. Rape is not a biblical punishment for anything.
If you are going to try to make the case that this isn't a "liberal vs. conservative" problem, you probably should follow this statement:
"It isn't a liberal versus conservative problem,"
With this one:
"though conservatives are more likely to send people to prison who really need medical treatment."
IOW, this isn't a liberal vs. conservative problem, but it's all conservatives fault.
Also, conservative states like Texas have a much worse problem.
Looking at the Department of Jusice data, it is clear that Texas has a problem. What is not clear is that conservative states have a worse problem than liberal ones. For example, Maryland and Michigan seem to have higher rates than Louisiana and North Carolina.
I just wanted to add my voice to those saying thank you for this post. The problem isn't a liberal or conservative issue--it's a human issue--and though the sides may disagree as to what should be done, I think we all can agree that the current state of things is unacceptable.
I should also add--and this is not directed at anyone in particular--that trying to turn this tragedy into a weapon against either conservatives or liberals, to use it to score a point, is also unacceptable. We're all co-belligerents in this particular battle.
I have often wondered how I would react if I were somehow wrongly imprisoned in this country. I too do not understand how our country can not only turn a blind eye to this horror, but seemingly condone it with numerous jokes. I guess like many injustices in the past, people haven't yet realized the severity of what they're laughing about.
Mumon,
I don't think it's asking too much to expect an apology rather than an excuse which tries to blame the victims of your offense.
If you're smart enough to find hidden connections between being pro-life and being indifferent to prison rape, then you're also smart enough to understand common courtesy and social graces.
Rob,
I think it's rather gentlemanly of you to stand up for Mumon. He is a person deserving of love and respect, after all.
But I can't agree with you that his comment was justified.
I don't think anyone's remarks in this thread were dishonest.
A couple of remarks have been defensive and arguably unfair, but just because you or I wouldn't have made them ourselves doesn't mean they were "transparent" or "dishonest". It just means that people see things differently and say things that can't necessarily be fully justified from a more neutral point of view.
Mumon responded by insulting Joe as being an ineffectual hypocrite when Joe had done nothing wrong. Joe's only crimes were to have written a wonderful essay and to provide a forum for people to come together and discuss things. Mumon's comment displayed ingratitude and mean-spiritedness towards Joe which was totally not justified, and he single-handedly lowered the tone of the comment thread a couple of notches.
I don't think Mumon is an ungrateful and mean-spirited person in the off-line world, so I don't think he should indulge himself in such a way here either.
Mumon expressed concern about conservative hypocrisy and the unintended consequences of pro-life policies. If he wishes to address such matters, there are far more effective ways of voicing his opinions that would actually be constructive and not disruptive and belittling.
Pretending that liberals don't care because the media are not awash with outrage is dishonest.
Nobody was pretending, people here are just expressing their views.
Perhaps the charge against liberals here is unfair, and certainly it could have been expressed in a more thoughtful and respectful manner. But there is truth behind the view that it is somewhat illogical to get worked up over something like waterboarding when prison rape appears to be a far greater problem, and a problem where a political movement for reform could potentially make a huge difference.
So while I appreciate your good intentions with regard to Mumon, I disagree with your conclusions.
Cheers,
Matthew
You are right, ucfengr, about the inconsistency of my comment. What I was trying to say is that this is something we should all work together on, but if you want to make it a conservative vs. liberal issue, neither side is blameless.
I was reacting to several comments, including your own (comment #3).
This issue and the number of comments it generates is not comparable to the waterboarding issue because we all agree that prison rape is wrong. In contrast, some around here (not Joe) support waterboarding. Obviously, there are going to be far more comments on issues where people disagree.
The writer that Joe cites at the start of his essay writes for "The American Prospect," a liberal magazine. The group Joe mentions, Stop Prisoner Rape, was founded mostly by liberals, some of whom were arrested for peaceful protests and raped in prison. Incidentally, I would recommend that everyone follow Joe's link to that site. I also commend the work done by Prison Fellowship to reform the criminal justice system through the Justice Fellowship.
Colson's Justice Fellowship (a subsidiary of Prison Fellowship) includes a link to an excellent resource by the JFA Institute: http://www.jfa-associates.com/publications/srs/UnlockingAmerica.pdf
If you still want to play the conservative vs. liberal game, I suggest you read that report carefully. It explains how conservative "law and order" politicians, supported by the Moral Majority and right-wing talk radio hosts, pushed for harsher prison conditions and stiffer sentences, which in turn led to many of the abusive conditions that now exist.
This issue and the number of comments it generates is not comparable to the waterboarding issue because we all agree that prison rape is wrong.
If that were the case, we would not see things like Bill Lockyer, the former AG of California saying "I would love to personally escort [Enron CEO Kenneth Lay] to an 8-by-10 cell that he could share with a tattooed dude who says, 'Hi, my name is Spike, honey'" or people, like the son of the Governor of Kansas creating games like "Don't Drop the Soap". I think the opposite may be true. IOW, the reason that this doesn't generate many comments is because people are at least sanguine about the prison r*pe, it not tacitly supporting of it.
If you still want to play the conservative vs. liberal game,
I wasn't trying to "play the conservative vs. liberal game", I was pointing out the lack of outrage from people on both sides, especially when compared to the outrage regarding the "water boarding" issue.
Can't conservatives be for "harsher conditions" (no weight rooms, no candy, work for privileges) and longer sentences (we have all seen the monstrous results of tiny sentences for bad crimes) without being accused of fostering prison rape?
Do we have to have cable tv and two months with time off for good behavior for assault in order to discourage prison rape?
I do not see a connection, at all.
Matthew: "Mumon responded by insulting Joe as being an ineffectual hypocrite when Joe had done nothing wrong."
He did not do so in comment #19, which I specifically defended.
"Mumon expressed concern about conservative hypocrisy and the unintended consequences of pro-life policies."
Again, not in comment # 19. The comment you refer to here came after you told Mumon he could be a creep sometimes. Comment #19 merely directed attention to evidence contradicting what some folks had said. I think Mumon's comment #19 was quite reasonable, don't you? His subsequent comment can perhaps be attributed in part to some slight provocation. Many's the time I have pushed the Submit button too quickly in such a case. If you'll give him the benefit of the doubt, I'll do the same for the others.
Nice to pleasantly disagree, er... discourse with you, as usual. ;-)
Rob,
Let's play back the tape. Comment 19:
Don Bosch, Collin Brendemuehl, ucfengr:
Maybe you missed it, but if you head on over to the ACLU's website you'll find that they've been on this issue a lot longer than Joe Carter-come-lately.
Now did Joe Carter complain about "liberals" ignoring prison rape?
No, he complained about Americans, himself included, ignoring prison rape. He said it was an American problem that ranked in seriousness right up there with human rights abuses in other countries.
There was no mention of liberals and no inference that liberals were in any way more negligent than anyone else.
Even Ucfengr in his comments (all five of them before comment 19) doesn't mention liberals. He makes a few references to comment threads on the Evangelical Outpost that went on at length about waterboarding, but he doesn't mention anyone's political beliefs.
So if Joe (and Ucfengr) doesn't mention liberals in an insulting way, and doesn't even say anything at all about liberals, why should Mumon give Joe some "cuff" about being a johnny-come-lately?
And while being a johnny-come-lately is not explicitly or necessarily the same thing as being an ineffectual hypocrite, Mumon was good enough to explain that that is exactly what he had meant.
What happened was this:
Three commenters (and not Joe) asserted that waterboarding seems less important than prison rape, but that waterboarding has gotten a lot more attention.
Mumon got defensive and made a rude reflexive comment about Joe, a comment which was not justified. He probably didn't mean to attack Joe personally, but rather didn't care enough to realize that that was what he was doing. As you point out, he was not thoughtful enough to make judicious use of his preview button.
As a result, a perfectly good post** by Joe is denigrated, and partisan contempt is inserted into a thread which had been relatively free of it until that point. Not the end of the world, but annoying and kind of pathetic.
Now, if he had responded to my "creep" comment with a bit of contrition, that would have been the end of it, and I would have gladly qualified my rejoinder, or even retracted it entirely. But he decided to go the dig-a-deeper-hole route instead.
To which I say, it's a free country, Mumon, but I would appreciate it if you tried to do better next time. Not only would you avoid giving unnecessary offense, you would actually make the thread lively and provocative in a positive and enjoyable way. Yes you can!
I do concede to you, however, that Mumon's original comment would have been entirely reasonable and very appropriate with some modest editing. Sometimes there's a fairly thin line between being a creep and a critic, and I hope I would be willing to admit it when I cross it myself.
As always, thanks very much for taking the time to share your perspective on things.
Cheers,
Matthew
** Actually, Joe's essay yesterday shouldn't be characterized as "a perfectly good post". It was much more than that; it was a modest but powerful moral statement that represents what blogging should be about. I think that is part of why I had such a visceral reaction to Mumon's careless pettiness.
What I was trying to say is that this is something we should all work together on, but if you want to make it a conservative vs. liberal issue, neither side is blameless.
I never asserted that either side was ex. What I did say was that the level of outrage not comparable to the level of outrage re: water boarding, and I don't think it is because their is unanimity on the issue. If there was we wouldn't see statements like Bill Lockyer's or games like "Don't Drop the Soap".
Male Prison rape is such a joke in our culture.
TV Comedians or Hollywood movies make fun of this problem all the time. And most of it is directed to male rape. "bubba is going to get you in there..."
Women rape is still taboo but I'm sure, in this tolerant culture of us, that will come to pass.
Edgar.
According to Human Rights Watch:
Past studies have documented the prevalence of black on white sexual aggression in prison.(213) These findings are further confirmed by Human Rights Watch's own research. Overall, our correspondence and interviews with white, black, and Hispanic inmates convince us that white inmates are disproportionately targeted for abuse. Although many whites reported being raped by white inmates, black on white abuse appears to be more common.
The fact that prison rape is a racially charged issue is another reason it gets ignored. We tend to avoid talking about the wildly disproportionate amount of black crime. Blacks rape white women outside of prison and white men in prison at rates that if the other way around would cause a national furor.
Surprises me that as worked up as progressives were over Abu Graib, there is no similar outrage among them for abuse in American prisons.
Take a serious, sobering topic and use it as an excuse to jab the ideologically different? Not very Christian of you.
I’m sure if you try, you’ll find plenty of outrage from progressives on the subject.
Threaten to water board Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, and everybody smells the whiff of fascism in the air, threaten to have Ken Lay gang raped and everybody has a good laugh. It's a sad commentary.
I think part of it is that for decades if not scores of years, prison rape has simply been tacitly accepted and quietly condoned by society at large. As a consequence, the appropriate outrage for the practice has eroded.
U.S. government-sanctioned torture, however, is a new phenomenon and goes against every principle a civilized government is supposed to stand for. A fresh outrage will burn hotter than an old one.
I am far more outraged by the prison conditions, including abuse, for first time offenders than I am about a few terrorists getting water boarded. Imagine what would happen if we as a society got as outraged by a first time offender getting gang r*ped as we do by a terrorist getting water boarded.
At least the prisoner in question was tried, convicted and found guilty of a crime, and sentenced to prison. Arguably, the harsh treatment he receives in prison is part of his punishment. (For the record, no, I don’t believe that prison rape and other abuse constitutes an acceptable adjunct to incarceration, but an unfortunate number of people do.) A terror suspect has not been found guilty of anything, and you can be sure that most individuals who have been subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques” were not guilty of anything either.
Water boarding isn't punishment (at least as we use it), it is a rarely used interrogation tactic.
Torture may not be intended as punishment, but it is at least as harsh as any kind of legal punitive action. And is the use of torture to coerce an admission of guilt (which may very well be a completely false confession to stop the treatment) really more morally acceptable than using torture to punish?
But there is truth behind the view that it is somewhat illogical to get worked up over something like waterboarding when prison rape appears to be a far greater problem, and a problem where a political movement for reform could potentially make a huge difference.
Prison rape is not a greater problem, rather it’s a more widespread and ignored problem. It is no more illogical to get worked up over waterboarding when prison rape is more widespread than it is illogical to get worked up over child rape when date/acquaintance rape is more frequent. They’re both morally unacceptable; the fact that one act is less common than another is irrelevant. (“A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” and all that.) Both it and waterboarding (and torture in general) are affronts against dignity and decency.
Additionally, part of the clamor over waterboarding is the very real concern that it will indeed become as commonplace and quietly accepted as prison rape. Consider the parallel between joking about “not dropping the soap/making ‘friends’ in prison” with “dunking in the water/taking a swim”.
Honestly, I suspect that the outrage at waterboarding and such will help draw attention and renew our lost outrage on other abuses, including prison rape.
Can't conservatives be for "harsher conditions" (no weight rooms, no candy, work for privileges) and longer sentences (we have all seen the monstrous results of tiny sentences for bad crimes) without being accused of fostering prison rape?
Do we have to have cable tv and two months with time off for good behavior for assault in order to discourage prison rape?
I do not see a connection, at all.
Of course conservatives can be for tougher sentences without being for prison rape. (However, I consider the mandatory minimum sentences that came into vogue in the ‘80s to be a sad joke that really needs to be rethought.)
The problem is this: Due in no small part to rhetoric of the political right, no politician has a compelling reason to fight for prisoners or back a movement for prison reform. There is very little political benefit in it.
When political conservatives rail against their opponents, a popular charge is that their counterpart is “soft on crime,” or “a member of the A.C.L.U. – All Criminals Love Us”, or the ever popular “suffering from fuzzy-headed liberal thinking that puts the rights of criminals above the rights of victims.” Being viewed as pro-criminal or simply not “tough enough on crime”, justified or not, is a recipe for political death or electoral failure. You can be carried into office by people thinking you’ll be harsh on criminals – not so much if voters think you’re remotely sympathetic to the presumed guilty.
This kind of demagoguery has created an atmosphere that, unfortunately, does not encourage meaningful changes in the penal system that would stop this kind of abuse from happening.
Islamists seem to believe rape is acceptable as a punishment. I've heard that high numbers of prisoners convert to Islam. Perhaps there is a correlation. If there is, that might explain why officials turn a deaf ear to the problem. Nobody seems to want to criticize Islamists.
"Nobody seems to want to criticize Islamists."
Really? I see criticism of Islamists every day, and rightly so, both in the mainstream media and the blogosphere. We criticize them for tolerating honor killings, female genital mutilation, terrorism, violent responses to perceived insults, and sectarian violence.
If you are not seeing abundant criticism of Islamists, you must be in the cave with Bin Laden. :-)
That's right Rob, I'm not as worldly as you. I can count the number of blogs I read daily on one hand (the same goes for newspapers/outlets and number of states I've resided).
Surprises me that as worked up as progressives were over Abu Graib, there is no similar outrage among them for abuse in American prisons.
Take a serious, sobering topic and use it as an excuse to jab the ideologically different? Not very Christian of you.
I’m sure if you try, you’ll find plenty of progressive outrage on the subject.
Threaten to water board Khalid Sheikh Mohamed, and everybody smells the whiff of fascism in the air, threaten to have Ken Lay gang raped and everybody has a good laugh. It's a sad commentary.
I think part of it is that for decades if not scores of years, prison rape has simply been tacitly accepted and quietly condoned by society at large. As a consequence, the appropriate outrage for the practice has eroded.
U.S. government-sanctioned torture, however, is a new phenomenon and also goes against every principle a civilized government is supposed to stand for. A fresh outrage will burn hotter than an old one.
I am far more outraged by the prison conditions, including abuse, for first time offenders than I am about a few terrorists getting water boarded. Imagine what would happen if we as a society got as outraged by a first time offender getting gang r*ped as we do by a terrorist getting water boarded.
At least the prisoner in question was tried, convicted and found guilty of a crime, and sentenced to prison. Arguably, the harsh treatment he receives in prison is part of his punishment. (For the record, no, I don’t believe that prison rape and other abuse constitutes an acceptable adjunct to incarceration, but an unfortunate number of people do.) A terror suspect has not been found guilty of anything, and you can be sure that most individuals who have been subjected to “enhanced interrogation techniques” were not guilty of anything either.
Water boarding isn't punishment (at least as we use it), it is a rarely used interrogation tactic.
Torture may not be intended as punishment, but it is at least as harsh as any kind of legal punitive action. And is the use of torture to coerce an admission of guilt (which may very well be a completely false confession to stop the treatment) really more morally acceptable than using torture to punish?
But there is truth behind the view that it is somewhat illogical to get worked up over something like waterboarding when prison rape appears to be a far greater problem, and a problem where a political movement for reform could potentially make a huge difference.
Prison rape is not a greater problem, rather it’s a more widespread and ignored problem. It is no more illogical to get worked up over waterboarding when prison rape is more widespread than it is illogical to get worked up over child rape when date/acquaintance rape is more frequent. They’re both morally unacceptable; the fact that one act is less common than another is irrelevant. (“A threat to justice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” and all that.) Both it and waterboarding (and torture in general) are affronts against dignity and decency.
Additionally, part of the clamor over waterboarding is the very real concern that it will indeed become as commonplace and quietly accepted as prison rape. Consider the parallel between joking about “not dropping the soap/making ‘friends’ in prison” with “dunking in the water/taking a swim”.
Honestly, I suspect that the outrage at waterboarding and such will help draw attention and renew our lost outrage on other abuses, including prison rape.
Can't conservatives be for "harsher conditions" (no weight rooms, no candy, work for privileges) and longer sentences (we have all seen the monstrous results of tiny sentences for bad crimes) without being accused of fostering prison rape?
Do we have to have cable tv and two months with time off for good behavior for assault in order to discourage prison rape?
I do not see a connection, at all.
Of course conservatives can be for tougher sentences without being for prison rape. (However, I consider the mandatory minimum sentences that came into vogue in the ‘80s to be a sad joke that really needs to be rethought.)
The problem is this: Due in no small part to rhetoric of the political right, no politician has a compelling reason to fight for prisoners or back a movement for prison reform. There is very little political benefit in it.
When political conservatives rail against their opponents, a popular charge is that their counterpart is “soft on crime,” or “a member of the A.C.L.U. – All Criminals Love Us”, or the ever popular “suffering from fuzzy-headed liberal thinking that puts the rights of criminals above the rights of victims.” Being viewed as pro-criminal or simply not “tough on crime” enough, justified or not, is a recipe for political death or electoral failure. You can be carried into office by people thinking you’ll be harsh on criminals – not so much if voters think you’re remotely sympathetic to the presumed guilty.
This kind of demagoguery has created an atmosphere that, unfortunately, does not encourage meaningful changes in the penal system that would stop this kind of abuse from happening.