Earlier this week we saw one of the most dispiriting scenes in America: tens of thousands of demonstrators converging on a small town in the Deep South to to promote injustice.
The rally in Jena, Louisiana for the "Jena Six" called for the release of six criminals in the name of "civil rights." Unfortunately, this isn't a unique phenomenon. Over the past few decades Americans have too frequently made political martyrs of criminals, men like Leonard Peltier and Mumia Abu-Jamal. When we are willing to exonerate murders in the name of "civil rights" it shouldn't be surprising that thousands of Americans can excuse the actions of these six young, cowardly thugs.
At least in the cases of Leonard and Mumia, the defenders could pretend that the murders might possibly be innocent. Not so in the case of the Jena 6. More than 40 witnesses saw Mychal Bell (age 16), Robert Bailey, Jr. (17), Carwin Jones (18), Bryant Purvis (17), Theo Shaw (17), and Jesse Ray Beard (14) viciously attack Justin Barker (17).
According to the witness statements, several people claim to have seen Bell punch Barker from behind, instantly knocking him to the concrete walkway. Witnesses say the other students then stomped on Barker, kicking him in the face and head as he was on the ground.
[Note: I deleted the quote by Coach Fowler. His claim that Barker was unconscious when the ambulance picked him up is in dispute.]
(This, by the way, is the event that Colbert King, the despicable columnist for the Washington Post, referred to as a "schoolyard fight.")
So the facts of the situation are that one cowardly thug sucker-punches a kid from behind and then joins with five other cowards in stomping the unconscious body. For this crime the "Free the Jena Six" crowd believes the proper punishment is....nothing.
But wait, it gets better.
Much of the outcry has come because Mychal Bell, the main cowardly thug, was tried as an adult. But let's examine why this was considered by the prosecution.
On Christmas Day 2005 Bell punched a 17-year-old girl in the face. (Yes, this cowardly thug not only sucker-punches boys from behind, he punches girls from the front too.) For this action Bell was charged with battery and put on probation until his 18th birthday. Nine months later he was charged with criminal damage to property. Two months after that, Bell was charged again with battery and again with criminal damage to property.
He was convicted of two of these charges in early September 2006. A few days later Bell was leading the Jena Giants to a shutout victory in a football game against the Buckeye Panthers. (You see, in the South, you can punch a girl in the face, destroy property, and, as long as you're a star athlete, you'll usually get off with a slap on the wrist.)
So one of the reasons that Bell was being tried as an adult after assaulting Barker was that he was already on probation for four previous violent crimes. Still, Louisiana's Third Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Bell's battery conviction in the Barker incident because he was tried as an adult. The other five cowards, however, were over seventeen at the time of the incident, thus making them adults under Louisiana law.
Until this point in this post I've avoided pointing out the races of the assailant and victim for the simple reason that justice is supposed to be color-blind. Sadly, too many people no longer believe that to be the case, as evidenced by the reaction to the actual crime that was committed.
This is not to deny that Jena has a problem with race. But to claim that the racial problems in the town lead to the unjust conviction of these six young men is difficult to reconcile with the facts. The popular narrative seems to be that Bell and the others were the victims of a racially-biased judicial system. But Bell's attorney was a black man. And the reason all six members of Bell's jury were white was because that while 350 black citizens were included in the jury selection process, none of them showed up as potential juries. (How many had better things to do than sit on Bell's jury yet showed up for the Free the Jena 6 rally?)
But what about the incident with the noose and the tree? An investigation by Donald Washington, U.S. attorney for the Western District of Louisiana (and a black man), found there was no link between the nooses hung by white students outside the school and the beating of Barker. That pat story line was added after the fact. Washington also criticized school officials for mishandling discipline at the school but told Jena residents he found no evidence of unfair prosecution or sentencing.
How then did this incident in an admittedly racially polarized town gain national attention? Because the professional race-baiters like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, and Colbert King followed their typical script: take a mix of lies and half-truths, ignore the systemic problems (black citizens refusing to participate in jury duty) in order to focus on "obviously racist" outcomes (an all-white jury!) and then trumpet it as a "defining moment" in the civil rights movement.
For thirty years they have been attempting to infantilize the black community by encouraging racial separation and then decrying its effects. They hold rallies to let thugs like Mychal Bell get away with their crimes because the victim--this time--was white. But what about the girl that Bell punched in the face? What color was her skin? And what will be the color of Bell's next victim?
How long will we continue to make celebrities of criminals before we recognize that justice should not only be blind, but color-blind?
Addendum: Richard Thompson Ford, writing in Slate.com, sums it up best:
The 21st century's civil rights movement will need more sympathetic poster children than the Jena 6. These young men weren't exactly engaged in peaceful civil disobedience when they ran afoul of the law. The injustice here is not that they are being prosecuted for their crime-it is that the many other wrongs that preceded the assault have been inadequately addressed. When you think about it, the logic that underlies the demand to free the Jena 6 comes down to this: These six young men were justified in kicking their lone victim senseless because other people who shared his race committed offenses against other black students. This sort of racial vendetta is diametrically opposed to the message of social justice and cross-racial understanding that underlies the civil rights movement of the last century.
I don't believe that is the whole story.
Wasn't there a similar incident of white guys beating up on a black guy but they were only charged with battery? Then these black guys are charged with attempted murder?
Maybe this is a poor case to emphasize it, but it is CLEAR that black men are prosecuted with higer offenses than white men.
Joe,
The rally in Jena, Louisiana for the "Jena Six" called for the release of six convicted criminals in the name of "civil rights."
Speaking of "lies and half truths," get your facts straight before ranting. Only one of the six has been convicted, and those convictions have been thrown out. He remains jailed while the prosecutor prepares for an appeal. The other five defendents have not been tried and are currently free on bail. Your claim that they are all convicted criminals is sloppy at best, deliberately misleading at worst. AFAIK, only Bell has been convicted of previous crimes, but your working implies that the 6 have been convicted and jailed for this crime.
I think Tim L. has put his finger on the cause of the protests: the perception that, in a racially charged atmosphere, the authorities do not treat black and white defendants equally. As far as I know, none of the protestors claimed that the Jena 6 are pure as the driven snow.
Joe,
I understand your point. However, as most white conservatives do (I used to be one) we tend to overlook the fact that whites enslaved blacks for 400 years and not until ONLY 20-30 years ago, blacks received any type of equality.
For years, black kids were beaten to death by whites (including police officers) and the perpetrators were given a slap on the hand.
ANY group of people who were dealt hundreds of years of injustices would rally for what they perceive to be an 'injusttice'.
As I heard a guy say a few years ago...yes this may seem to be reverse racism...but that implies that "normal racism" is acceptable.
I agree with Tim. The Jena case may not be the perfect case to make this point. However, I think it's a little naive (and arrogant) of you, as an intelligent adult, to totally ignore what's gone on for so long in the past and not understand why they would come together on an issue like this.
Past racist acts (400 years of slavery) might justify this racist act (letting people get away with a crime only because they are black) in some people's minds. But it perpetuates the problem. More likely, it makes it worse.
Tim, I believe you are referring to the fight at a private dance. Five uninvited black, male students tried to crash the party. A white man, not a student, turned them away. This resulted in a fight with the blacks and several whites involved. The first man was arrested and charged with battery to which he pleaded guilty. Basically you had the equivalent of a bar room brawl. Battery is a typical charge. Notice, no blacks were charged. An incident the next day where (accounts are conflicting) it appeared some blacks attacked the man from the night before resulted in simple battery charges of those in question.
Now, the reason why attempted murder was the initial charge was you have a group of young adults coming up behind someone, knocking him out, and literally kicking him while he was down. He then required a trip to the emergency room. Most people recognize the difference of the actions. One is a standard fight. The other is a brutal attack.
No, it's not clear that black men are prosecuted with higher offenses.
I like to point out two things to those who bring slavery into the issue. First what about statue of limitations? How long are we allowed to go back? Is Israel allowed to sue Egypt for slavery, what about all the countries Rome enslaved? I like a real answer to this question, 100 yrs, 500 yrs, which is it?
Secondly not all blacks were slaves and not all whites slave owners. Many blacks came to this country after slavery was ended, therefore I think we should look up the Jena's 6's ancestory and see if they really had ancesters as slaves. If they did- let them go, if not- try them normally. As for whites we're not all equal. I'm Italian, and my great grandparents didn't come here to 1910 so my family never had anything with slavery. I like to a law passed in which blacks (with the proper ancestery of course) must ask whites if they are of english descent before punching them in the back of the head. It really is the right thing to do.
What about the ropes hanging from the tree? Remember the lynchings of blacks that happened in the South? That's part of the story here, you know.
JohnW, the FBI, US District Attorney, and the local police looked into the noose incident and didn't find a racial motive to it. The nooses were done up in school colors. It looks to be a poorly thought out prank. The school did suspend the students in question. Initially they were expelled but the school board lessened the punishment.
Finally, the none of the Jena 6 mentioned the noose incident as a motivating factor.
Could someone compare the respect for the law
shown by these protesters, and by President Bush
when he pardoned Scooter Libby?
I tend to view both as miscarriages of justice.
"Is Israel allowed to sue Egypt for slavery?"
no...but egypt might have a compelling case against Israel for a 3000 years long FALSE ACCUSATION of slavery...come on...even Israeli historians and archeologists dont try to deffend the "hebrew slavery in Egypt" fairy tale anymore...the evidence against it is simply too overwhelming.
If our country has been dumbed downed to the point where the connotations to black people of ropes hanging from trees is not known, things are really bad.
The comments section of a post by Althouse includes quite a bit of information.
Hey Ludwig, how about showing us some of that "overwhelming evidence" rather than just yakking about it.
And while you're at it, how about demonstrating how your bleat relates to the original topic? Oh wait, it doesn't. It was just more random gainsaying.
If our country has been dumbed downed to the point where the connotations to black people of ropes hanging from trees is not known, things are really bad.
The students responsible for the ropes were punished, so apparently they did understand the "connotations". So what are you saying, that they should have been punished more harshly and the fact that they weren't mitigates the "Jena 6's" brutal and cowardly beating of a student who doesn't appear to have been involved in the rope incident?
ucfengr,
I am saying that those involved with the rope incident should have been expelled from school for one week as orginally planned-this should not have been changed to 3 days inschool explusion (and if my facts are wrong and it was one week in school explusion don't start with B S about how I am a liar, ok).
Also, a school meeting should have been held were the administration should have clearly stated a zero tolerance for racism. And they should have given a presentation of the history of the lynching of blacks in the south.
We can bring up who hung what in what tree, and who beat up who last year, or owned who 400 years ago until the cows come home, but in reality those arguments are futile.
These 6 men jumped and beat up another person. Regardless of color, and regardless of the past experience of the justice system they committed a crime. They deserve to be punished, not tauted as heroes of the civil rights movement. Jesse Jackson calling this the Selma, AL for the 21st century should be insulting to anyone who has ever championed civil rights. But unfortunately the "movement" is far removed from the days of Martin Luther King. Now it is decry racism at any level at any cost and let the truth be damned.
So has anyone discovered the actual motive for Bell and his henchmen to assault Justin Barker? Why is this movtive not reported by anyone?
For the sake of argument, let's just say you are right that the students involved in the rope incident weren't punished harshly enough and the whole school should have been forced to sit through a history lesson on the evils of the white racism, John. How does the school's failure to take that action justify the beating of Barker, who was apparently not involved in the rope incident?
JohnW, the facts of this case have been so distorted, it's hard to find out what actually happened.
From Eddie Thompson, a minister in Jena:
After first being expelled, then upon appeal, being allowed to re-enter the school system, they [the noose hangers] were sent to an alternative school, off-campus, for an extended period of time. They underwent investigations by Federal and Sate authorities. They were given psychological evaluations. Even when they were eventually allowed back on campus they were not allowed to be a part of the general population for weeks.
So, they didn't receive a slap on the wrist. Also, living in the South, I'm sure everyone there knows about racism and lynching. They probably go over it every February. Plus, I would be they went over racism at the pre-school student meeting the day before the noose hanging incident the first day of school. Anyways they brought in the district attorney later to talk to the students:
The speech given by Reed Walters that included the now infamous statement “I can end your life with the stroke of a pen” was not given to a group of black students. It was given during a speech to the entire student body in an assembly called by the school's principal to calm a community that was pulling their children out of school because there were two fights one day with racial overtones. Two girls, one white and one black fought. Another student [CL: Reported as a white student hit from behind] was taken to the emergency room to receive stitches.
Chris Lutz,
You are right, we don't really know all the facts of the situation, so it's difficult to comment about it.
If they had a school meeting about racism before the noose incident, that would indicate whoever put the nooses in the trees knew exactly what they were doing and trying to send a message.
Once again, I don't know the facts though.
When last I checked, two wrongs still don't make a right.
Jena clearly has a race problem to some degree, but no matter how badly provoked, none of the Jena 6 were justified in what they did. They should be treated justly by the courts, but not lightly. I think that Joe has the right on this one.
For Jesse Jackson and his ilk to call this a defining moment for civil rights is enough to make Martin Luther King Jr. weep in his grave. King himself said, "Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." That seems particularly poignant to me right now.
Martin Luther King: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
Unfortunately, the Jacksons and Sharptons of this world pay only lip service to this dream of MLK, and in reality base every single issue on the color of the skin.
There are young black men and women all over America walking this walk that MLK dreamed of;however, these young men should be judged on the content of their character, and prosecuted to the fullest based on that criteria alone.
Martin Luther King was a member of the left and maybe even a communist.
Was what he did even necessary or really beneficial? King advocated class warfare, may be our country would have been better off without him given the way the 1960's turn out...
The Justice Department reinvested the noose-hanging incident and determined there was no link between the nooses and the beating of a white student by black students at Jena High School. U.S. Attorney Donald Washington told CNN that, "A lot of things happened between the noose hanging and the fight occurring, and we have arrived at the conclusion that the fight itself had no connection." He added that none of the black students involved in the beating made “any mention of nooses, of trees, of the 'N' word or any other word of racial hate." According to CNN, federal official also examined the way the school handled the infractions and whether black students were being treated differently than white students. Washington told CNN that they discovered “it was not unusual for the school superintendent to reinstate students after the principal recommends expelling them.” Washington also told CNN that the 16-year-old defendant, Mychal Bell, has “several previous assault charges on his record.” The CNN story (“U.S. Attorney: Nooses, Beating at Jen High Not Related”) is online at http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/law/09/19/jena.six.link/index.html?iref=newssearch
The 22-year old arrested after the fight at the private party was convicted of battery and place on parole because he had no previous convcition. In my town, uninvited teenagers crashing private parties is a constant source of trouble, leading to fights, stabbbing and shootings, although the participants are usually of the same race and ethnic group.
According to the Jena Times, police arrested the black student involved in the incident at the convienence store because witnesses backed the white student's version of the advent. The witnesses say the black students, who were the same students involved in the beating at Jena High, confronted the white student inside the store and chased him to his truck in the parking lot. The police were persuaded that the white student pulled the shotgun in self defense. The incidence at the convenience store apparently also stemed from the confrontation at the private party. No one has suggested it is connected to the noose-hanging incident.
1. All we can hope is that justice is done according to the facts.
2. The wrongs of someone's ancestors do not justify worngs by their descendants against persons who may not even be descended from the original wrong-doers.
3. Moral agency, virtue, must guide both law and law enforcement. Class conflict (either ethnic or economic) is not a legitimate source for justice.
Collin
http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com/
"What about the ropes hanging from the tree? Remember the lynchings of blacks that happened in the South? That's part of the story here, you know."
No, no it's absolutely not in as far as the trial of these 5 men goes.
"What white Southerners still fail to realize is their complicity in some of the most vicious and effective terrorism the world has ever seen. Lynchings were only the most visible and brutal embodiments of a system to terrorize the black minority. A noose is a symbol the way a swastika is a symbol. A noose hanging from a tree in that context is an almost unimaginably vicious act. Those white teens, instead of being ashamed of their terrorist ancestry, reveled in the evil. The adults who are charged with the education of all the students deemed it merely a prank."
Friends of Justice has the timeline.
Ethics Daily has the background on Texas minister Alan Bean who has worked on criminal justice issues for nearly 10 years.
http://www.ethicsdaily.com/article_detail.cfm?AID=9456
Many of these marchers were church groups, Baptists etc. The interfaith group in Jena hwas spoken, white ministers in Jena spoke up.
The petition has over 216 thousand signatures. And some of your information in the post is incorrect, you are welcome to your opinion, however, not sourcing some of your facts doesn't lend credibility to opnion.
Racisim is alive and well.
“I think a group of White men with AK rifles loaded with high capacity magazines should close in on the troop of howler monkeys from all sides and compress them into a tight group, and then White men in the buildings on both sides of the shitskinned hominids shall throw Molotov cocktails from above to cleanse the nigs by fire,” wrote “NS Cat” on VNN. Another poster fantasized about a terrorist attack in Jena today: “Wouldn’t that be sweet? Gosh darn, wouldn’t that be sweet? Good LORD wouldn’t THAT be SWeeeeEET? Boom, Boom, no more Coon! Well? A White man can dream can’t he?”
"If these blacks want a race war,” added a poster on Stormfront, another white supremacist Web forum, “they will get one. Bring it on.”
neo-Nazi Bill White, this afternoon posted the home addresses and phone numbers of five of the six black youths who make up the Jena 6 under this headline: “Addresses of Jena 6 Niggers: In Case Anyone Wants to Deliver Justice.”
The FBI is now reinvolved.
Look at how this white nationalist Richard Barrett, leader of the Nationalist Movement, exploited Justin Barker and his family.
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2007/09/23/white-supremacist-exploits-jena-la-family
"Hey Ludwig, how about showing us some of that "overwhelming evidence" rather than just yakking about it."
well lets eee...there is the egyptian historical records which are very extensive and cover the period of the alledged exodus,accounting for who built what and when...without mentioning the word jews or hebrew even once. there is also the fact that the egyptians had complete military control over the region that encompassed the land of Cannan at the time. it would have been hard for the egyptian not to notice that the land they controlled was being taken over by an army of former slaves. Furthermore,the archeological and anthropological evidence gathered in what was Cannan (now israel) is completely devoid of any of the required historical markers to indicatwe that the cannanite were destroyed and replaced by an invading culture...there are no massive battlefields filled with burried or unburried dead, in some instances hundreds of thousands of ennemy corpses according to biblical narrative...no indication of a dramatic change of cultural habits in the artifacts recovered all over,no evidence of entire cities destroyed....the evidence is quite clear on this...the cannanite of then became the hebrews of the time of herod...they are in essence the very same people.
i think that, as Tim L mentioned, the emphasis here is not that the students were wrongfully convicted. it's not about whether a crime was committed and whether punishment is deserved, it's about the overcharge.
maybe we're hyperbolized to the point of insensitivity, but a beating that deserves an AM charge, it would seem, wouldn't be one that would allow the victim to party later on that night. assault or even aggravated assault would probably have been much more correct.
unfortunately, in this situation there was no "right" side. the 6 Black students were wrong for the assault, but the prosecutor's overcharging of the students was even more egregious.
Hey Lud, evidence is when you provide documentation for your unsupported assertions, not just providing more unsupported assertions.
There is massive evidence for the Exodus both in Egyptian historical records and in archeological finds both in Israel and Sainai.
Ludwig,
C'mon man everytime you come up in here with that weak sauce you call an argument, you get smacked down. I thought you were here to be provocative or something. You're smarter than us, right? Bring the knowledge already!
"There is massive evidence for the Exodus both in Egyptian historical records and in archeological finds both in Israel and Sainai."
afraid not...the "evidence" in egyptian historical records you are refering to is no doubt the hyskos explusion which is well documented but an in depth study of the hyskos people reveal that are not hebrews...furthermore, the events of their expulsion doesnt correspond to the exodus narrative at all. As for the evidence of human presence in the Sinai desert, there were ruins of installations,camp sites and granaries in some areas but most of these were either nomab camps or egyptian garrisons. there is also the glaring absense of the remains of 2-3 million bodies which are required by the exodus narrative since all the people who left egypt had to be dead and only their children could enter the promised land. plus,the sinai can be crossed on foot in less than 3 days...how do you get lost for 40 years in such a small area? and, once again,the archeological evidence in Cannan demonstrate a smooth transition from the pagan cannanite people to the monotheistic hebrew and not the cataclysmic extermination of one culture to be suddently replaced by another completely different culture.
Why has nobody been charged with a hate crime yet? Clearly this would fit the bill?
KRM,
There is no such thing as a "hate crime", things are either a crime or they are not.
Besides "Hate Crimes" legislation is just another way the secular left seeks to persecute christians for their beliefs. We just need to enforce the laws we got.
"Besides "Hate Crimes" legislation is just another way the secular left seeks to persecute christians for their beliefs. We just need to enforce the laws we got."
christianity os the means by which christians persecuted anyone they did not like for the last 1700 years...turnabout is fair play...but look at the bright side...at least we "secular leftists" dont imprison,torture,burn,pillage,kill the victims of our "persucussion"
at least we "secular leftists" dont imprison,torture,burn,pillage,kill the victims of our "persucussion"
Your knowledge of "secular leftist" history is quite lacking.
When Christians speak out against the sin of homosexuality, it could eventually be construed as a "hate crime" and churches could be fined or worse. It's all a part of the secular left's war on Christianity and an attempt to undermine our nation's judeo-christian morality.
No. 39 was my comment. Was responding to KRM. Made a mistake.
ucfengr:
He's about to get that information. He is not 100% accurate. I have the eye witness statements and they will be passed off to him. Despite his minor inaccuracies in his blog post, he is pretty close. Alot closer than most people. So much misinformation is going around about this case that it's difficult to find a "pure" story. It's sad how none of them have bothered to go to the source (court docs & eye witness statements).
Joe wrote: "And the reason all six members of Bell's jury were white was because that while 350 black citizens were included in the jury selection process, none of them showed up as potential juries. (How many had better things to do than sit on Bell's jury yet showed up for the Free the Jena 6 rally?)"
I don't think this is correct. Another story said that 150 jurors were called and that 50 showed up, all of them white. Based on the population of that parish and the percentage of the population that is black (12%), it sounds like 350 is the total number of potential black jurors in the entire parish.
Are you sure all of the young men were involved in the assault? One report suggested that most of them were not, but were standing there.
Are you aware that in order to convict the young man of the particular charge (I think aggravated assault), the prosecutor argued and the jury agreed that a tennis shoe constituted a deadly weapon?
While I do not think the history of racial tension (including the nooses) justifies what happened, I do think that context (and the larger history of race relations) does help explain the high level of resentment and rage.
I don't think the Jena Six should get off scot-free, but it does appear to me that they were not treated in proportion the crime they apparently committed.
Martin Luther King was a member of the left and maybe even a communist.
Was what he did even necessary or really beneficial? King advocated class warfare, may be our country would have been better off without him given the way the 1960's turn out
But where was the Right during the Civil Rights Struggle?
Statements like that make my blood curl.
As a Christian and a Blackman, I find it difficult to criticise the Left the same way my white brethren do.
Time and time again (Civil Rights and Apartheid). The 'respectable' white christian base has remained silent while the Left plunged into battle.
This kind of reminds us of the parable of the Good Samaritan - The Samaritan was a sinner, but he did the job that the 'righteous' were not willing to do.
I don't care whether Martin Luther King was a Marxist, Leninist or a Troskyite. The fact is that because of his work, Colin Powell and Condi Rice became Secretaries of State. Now you can afford to be detached from the work of MLK, it doesn't matter to you (after all, the American dream has always been open to people like you).
But for sake of people like me who depended on MLK to fight for that dream - please try to see beyond the 'Marxist' label.
It is irrelevant.
Martin Luther King was a member of the left and maybe even a communist.
Was what he did even necessary or really beneficial? King advocated class warfare, may be our country would have been better off without him given the way the 1960's turn out
But where was the Right during the Civil Rights Struggle?
Statements like that make my blood curl.
As a Christian and a Blackman, I find it difficult to criticise the Left the same way my white brethren do.
Time and time again (Civil Rights and Apartheid). The 'respectable' white christian base has remained silent while the Left plunged into battle.
This kind of reminds us of the parable of the Good Samaritan - The Samaritan was a sinner, but he did the job that the 'righteous' were not willing to do.
I don't care whether Martin Luther King was a Marxist, Leninist or a Troskyite. The fact is that because of his work, Colin Powell and Condi Rice became Secretaries of State. Now you can afford to be detached from the work of MLK, it doesn't matter to you (after all, the American dream has always been open to people like you).
But for sake of people like me who depended on MLK to fight for that dream - please try to see beyond the 'Marxist' label.
It is irrelevant.
Poster Maduka wrote:
I don't care whether Martin Luther King was a Marxist, Leninist or a Troskyite. The fact is that because of his work, Colin Powell and Condi Rice became Secretaries of State. Now you can afford to be detached from the work of MLK, it doesn't matter to you (after all, the American dream has always been open to people like you).
A certain George W. Bush was involved in both of those appointments too, by the way.
Jay Hawk,
Not to take anything away from Bush, Bush is a great guy.
Condi Rice might have ended up as an academic in a 'historic black college' and Powell might have ended as a 'buffalo soldier', if not for the pioneering work of MLK and many other activists.
MLK fought for the opportunities that made Powell a General and Condi Rice an Ivy League professor. Bush just appointed two very capable people to his cabinet.
We need to remember that forty odd years ago, the United States was an 'Apartheid' nation. We also need to remember that forty odd years ago, the Southern Baptist Convention (and many other christian organisations) did not support civil rights.
Given our history of slavery, given our treatment of minorities - what makes us morally superior to other nations?
How can we look at our history (as christians) and say we are more righteous than the rest of the World?
Jay Hawk,
Not to take anything away from Bush, Bush is a great guy.
Condi Rice might have ended up as an academic in a 'historic black college' and Powell might have ended as a 'buffalo soldier', if not for the pioneering work of MLK and many other activists.
MLK fought for the opportunities that made Powell a General and Condi Rice an Ivy League professor. Bush just appointed two very capable people to his cabinet.
We need to remember that forty odd years ago, the United States was an 'Apartheid' nation. We also need to remember that forty odd years ago, the Southern Baptist Convention (and many other christian organisations) did not support civil rights.
Given our history of slavery, given our treatment of minorities - what makes us morally superior to other nations?
How can we look at our history (as christians) and say we are more righteous than the rest of the World?
FromJena: I am not sure what, that I have posted, you are responding to.
Excellent post, Joe.
Ludwig,
"there is also the glaring absense of the remains of 2-3 million bodies which are required by the exodus narrative since all the people who left egypt had to be dead and only their children could enter the promised land."
What evidence do you want? All of those bodies would have turned to dust a long, long time ago without any mummification, which the Israelites did not do. I'm afraid your minimalism is a presupposition, nothing more.
"What evidence do you want? All of those bodies would have turned to dust a long, long time ago without any mummification, which the Israelites did not do. I'm afraid your minimalism is a presupposition, nothing more."
Only if they had been left to be blasted by the sand and wind on the surface....but it is assumed that A: they did not die all at once and B: that their surviving relatives would have given them descent burials...and bones can endure tens of thousands of years before completely breaking down...furthermore,the only artifacts that were recovered in the Sinai came eather from small nomad camps or Egyptian military garrisons which doted the region since Cannan was lorded over by egypt at the time of the supposed Exodus. there would have been no ned to pursue the fleeing hebrews...the egyptians would have been waiting for them on the other side of the red sea...and that was just ONE of several glaring problems with trying to reconciliate the exodus tale with the massive evidence gathered in the region which indicates that the hebrews were CANNANITES who's culture arose directly from within cannanite civilisation as opposed to replacing it as a result of a military invasion which according to the evidence never occured.
This is obviously a issue between two seperate races. You can't give one side of a story and leave out another although we don't know all the facts, there is always another side to the story. Now the nooses, the students that did that should have been more than suspended. That's not a joke and they can't say they didn't know what it mean't because; after all the years in school they had they learned about slavery for many years. To me it seems that the white students didn't want the blacks under the tree so they decided to threaten the students with nooses. Now this happened in September. Three months later the six black students jumped Justin Barker. Mychal Bell is clearly not racist as who ever wrote this paper makes him seem. He doesn't only offend whites, racism shouldn't be the question for Mychal. Now the jury, they were all white and mainly racist. They were probably glad to attend a trial where they could put Mychal Bell in jail as an adult. After the incident with the six black students there were several more, one, a white man pulled a firearm out on three blacks, the blacks wrestled with him and finally took the gun away and ran. Of course the person that wrote this didn't put this in because the person is ignorant and not open minded. We know that if this was the other way around it would have been different, the people already showed us that by only suspending the white students. I personally have nothing against white people, but I do know right from wrong and justice to injustice. The six black students should be charged but their sentences should be lightened. In the past it was once sayed that silence only leads to injustice, the black community will not and shall not be silenced. Americas system is being abused by those that have power, power becomes an addiction to some, and can lead to justice for others. Opionions and racial debates are tearing communities apart, but what can we do, this is the way America is and the way it's going to be till we do something about it. America can never reach it's fullest potential till racsism stops. Until then we will continue to run our selves in the dirt. Al Sharpton may be viewed as racist to some but is opions and statements are strong. He is not a great leader though, he doesn't see justice, he is only another greedy man looking for power and control. The noise of one can't be heared, but thousands of voices will be heard. It won't come as a whisper but as a boom. It will move not just America, but the whole world shall hear it. The voices may not come now, but they will be heard. We just need a stronger leader. Racsism isn't only between blacks and whites, but hispanics, chinese, japanese, and every other race. All races should be brought together so the whites shall see how power hungry and wrong they really are. Till then is only injustice...
From lil a, age 14
This is obviously a issue between two seperate races. You can't give one side of a story and leave out another although we don't know all the facts, there is always another side to the story. Now the nooses, the students that did that should have been more than suspended. That's not a joke and they can't say they didn't know what it mean't because; after all the years in school they had they learned about slavery for many years. To me it seems that the white students didn't want the blacks under the tree so they decided to threaten the students with nooses. Now this happened in September. Three months later the six black students jumped Justin Barker. Mychal Bell is clearly not racist as who ever wrote this paper makes him seem. He doesn't only offend whites, racism shouldn't be the question for Mychal. Now the jury, they were all white and mainly racist. They were probably glad to attend a trial where they could put Mychal Bell in jail as an adult. After the incident with the six black students there were several more, one, a white man pulled a firearm out on three blacks, the blacks wrestled with him and finally took the gun away and ran. Of course the person that wrote this didn't put this in because the person is ignorant and not open minded. We know that if this was the other way around it would have been different, the people already showed us that by only suspending the white students. I personally have nothing against white people, but I do know right from wrong and justice to injustice. The six black students should be charged but their sentences should be lightened. In the past it was once sayed that silence only leads to injustice, the black community will not and shall not be silenced. Americas system is being abused by those that have power, power becomes an addiction to some, and can lead to justice for others. Opionions and racial debates are tearing communities apart, but what can we do, this is the way America is and the way it's going to be till we do something about it. America can never reach it's fullest potential till racsism stops. Until then we will continue to run our selves in the dirt. Al Sharpton may be viewed as racist to some but is opions and statements are strong. He is not a great leader though, he doesn't see justice, he is only another greedy man looking for power and control. The noise of one can't be heared, but thousands of voices will be heard. It won't come as a whisper but as a boom. It will move not just America, but the whole world shall hear it. The voices may not come now, but they will be heard. We just need a stronger leader. Racsism isn't only between blacks and whites, but hispanics, chinese, japanese, and every other race. All races should be brought together so the whites shall see how power hungry and wrong they really are. Till then is only injustice...
From lil a, age 14
But what about the incident with the noose and the tree?
Something I remember from my high school days (early Seventies) that I've never seen talked about in the Jena Six contest, but may have some bearing:
Whenever somebody left a rope/line/whatever with one end hanging free, some joker would tie a hangman's knot in the dangling end. Never failed; usually within the hour.
It has something to do with the Bart Simpson in teenage males; anything gross, disgusting, or offensive is considered hilariously funny. (Especially if it's offensive; then you get to watch the overreaction, and stupidity and overreactions are funny as long as you're not directly involved.)
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