1

That's interesting, given the well established negative correlation between religiosity and intelligence. I suspect it has something to do with discipline and/or parental involvement.

2

Yes, it's true - all of the great scientists were avowed atheists.

Um, wait...

3

Thats a very open-minded, compassionate, non-prejudiced thought to share with us Chris.

4

Unfortunately, there is no data on intact atheist families like mine. We are lumped in with nonactive theists.

5

Tim, no, it's a fact to share, and I shared it because it does make Joe's data interesting, because it makes the explanation less than obvious. What is it about church going families that produces better GPAs?

6

Chris, it is not a fact. There is nothing well established about what you say.

It is a bigoted, stereotypical assumption that you supposedly "enlightened" people are suppose to be above.

7

Tom, it may not be well established, but it is more than a stereotypical assumption. Several studies have shown the very correlation Chris refers to. I remember one in Scientific American in particular. I've linked a couple of these studies here in the past. I'm sure you could find them with a google easily enough.

You needn't believe the evidence, but you shouldn't deny its existence until you've checked it out.

8

Hmmm Joe, this would be a lot more useful if they controlled for other variables as well. Variables like wealth etc.

As to Chris and Rob Ryan's well or otherwise fact about the negative correlation between Religiosity and Intelligence, this is a badly mangled view of the studies in question, especially the scientific american that Rob mentions.

The scientific american 'study' showed a negative correlation between belief in god and academic qualifications. This correlation has not been investigated as to the actual causes, which may be intelligence, wealth, educational indoctrination. Considering the educational system in the U.S. is essentially atheistic, this correlation is hardly suprising, unless of course you want to argue that education has no effect on a persons belief which would be surprising considering the vitriol and passion by with which the secular humanists try and keep Christianity out of education.

Note also that the scientific american article did not look at religiosity, but instead belief. (Which is a problem as most of the studies looked at different indicators and trying to group them together is indeed comparing apples and oranges).

Checking out the Wikipedia article on the topic is priceless...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

"In 1986, an essay in the magazine Free Inquiry, which is published by Paul Kurtz's Council for Secular Humanism, summarized studies on religiosity and intelligence.[1] In it Burnham Beckwith, the author of self-published and subsidy-published books on socialism and futurism,[2] summarized studies on religiosity and its relation with attributes that he considered positively linked with intelligence: IQ, SAT scores, "success", and academic certification. Although conceding that it was easy to find fault with the studies he reviewed, "for all were imperfect," he contended that the studies he examined, taken together, provided strong evidence for an inverse correlation between intelligence and religious faith in America."

Yep...all studies were flawed, but taken together all those flaws mean that the atheists pre-conceived beliefs about their own intellectual superiority was reinforced? That's a great indicator of wish fulfilment mentality, not intelligence.

9

Actually, I'm not referring to the American Scientist study (I wouldn't refer to any study that appeared in a pop science magazine). But the personality literature is full (and I mean full) of about 40 years of studies showing just such a negative correlation, even with factors such as socio-economic status controlled for. If you don't believe me, you can analyze some data yourself. Just go play with the General Social Survey data.

The fact is, the negative correlation is extremely well established. It would be strange not to call it a fact. It's even stranger to call it a prejudice or bias. It's like saying, "Gravity is a prejudice against upward motion."

10

It's difficult to say what I want to say without sounding rude or elitist - and I hope I'm neither (Well, I guess I can be a little elitist :))
But this occurs to me...
...Whilst at university, I can remember many, many late night debates between us students on all sorts of topics - but often on religion. If you had asked me at, say 16, "Do you believe in God?", I would have said "yes"...not because I actually did, but because the culture in which I was brought up at least acknowledged God in it's ceremonies and institutions etc. (I'm English, by the way, so the church and state thing doesn't apply so much.) I thought we were all Christians...but had never bothered thinking it through.
But once I had joined in with some of these debates (clouded by alcohol, though they may have been!) I was forced to think about my beliefs. I realised I didn't believe; so I became an atheist - or perhaps simply realised I already WAS one!
When I returned home in the breaks, those of my friends who had not gone into higher education, simply did not wish to bother thinking about such things (they were probably too busy earning an "honest" living!). However they still described themselves as "Christian" although I could see that in actual fact the label meant nothing to most of them.
So, I wonder whether it's at least in part, to do with the fact that, those with "higher intelligence" have probably been exposed to an environment where they have been more likely to think through what they really do believe.
It's not that being more intelligent leads to non-belief (or belief) it just enables you to evaluate your belief system more thorougly.
Certainly when I was converted out of my atheism a while later, it was not because of a lack or an excess of education! And when I later talked to the same friends about my new beliefs, they weren't interested in that either. "Well, we're a Christian country, we're all Christians," I can remember one saying.
And after all, what is intelligence? If Chris is right and is has something to do with discipline and parental involvemet, aren't those parents displaying intelligence, whatever their SATs might suggest?

11

I think I might be able to explain a correlation between religiosity and intelligence. My understanding of the Bible is that it requires one to acknowledge you cannot save yourself on your own merit, to rely on God instead of on yourself. I believe it would be more difficult for people who have great wealth or intellect to admit they need God. Therefore I would believe that some correlation exists, not because no wise person would believe the Bible or believe in God, but because intelligent people put their faith in their own intellect (the wisdom of God vs. the wisdom of man).

One of the appealing things about the gospel is that is doesn't take a degree in philosophy to understand enough to follow it, but there are aspects that cause debate among the Christian "scholars" as well. I would also point out that history teaches us that some ideas that were popular at times among the most intelligent folks turned out to be false.

12

I don't think it shows a correlation between religiousity and intelligence.

I think it shows a correlation between religiousity and a high standard for performance.

I suspect that the children of
church-going parents actually went to school a lot more often - less cutting class, less dropping out.

They probably did their homework more often. They
probably paid attention more in class and didn't
goof off as much. In short, I bet that as a group
they had a higher work ethic.

It only makes sense that in a family that teaches
obedience to authority, hard work, and perseverance, and backs it up with two parents who
enforce the standards, that the offspring of those
marriages would tend to do better in school.