1

Mr. Carter, this is the most hilarious blog post I've ever read in my life. I probably just woke up the landlady with my laughter.

2

Hilarious!

I would love to see a Timmy, the Witnesses and the LDS folks in one setting. I'd pay for that.

3

Well done, you get the prize, my friend. You got to love to laugh.

4

Humorous post but cyncial response debases the seriousness of being an assertive Christian parent.

5

Hank, lighten up! Nothing in this post "debases the seriousness of being an assertive Christian parent," unless you're really straining to see it.

6

The problem is with the boy, not the dope.

I have been a marijuana smoker for nigh on to 40 years now. I have been a successful contractor and manager most of my life. I find something to do around the house every day when I get home from work, usually working in the garden or on my house.

I have smoked pot with an Air Force pilot, two Navy pilots, a probation officer, several lawyers, a few of my bosses, an anesthesiologist, a crane operator, a few skydivers, truckdrivers, school teachers, many people holding steady jobs of various types, and at least one cop. They all drew a paycheck every week. None of us are lazy.

Bill Clinton, Richard Pryor, Tim Allen, Tony Curtis, B. B. King, George Harrison, Willie Nelson, and a thousand other celebrities have smoked pot and it didn't seem to affect their working capacity.

The boy's just sorry, all I can say.

7

Great list, Tim Allen went to jail, Bill Clinton almost went to jail, Willie Nelson is still paying his back taxes, George Harrison is dead as is Richard Pryor(who set himself on fire), Tony Curtis looks like he hasn't stop smoking pot and BB, thankfully, is still alive but has rather serious problems with diabetes. Looks to me like these men are good examples of how to wreck your health and careers from smoking pot.

8

J. Hagglund the humor is thinly vailed cynism. It's too bad you can't see it.

9

"I have smoked pot with an Air Force pilot, two Navy pilots..."

You wouldn't mind dropping me an email (you can find my address on my website) with the names of these pilots, would you?

Thanks, then. I'm sure, assuming these pilots are still in the military, the Navy and the Air Force will both appreciate knowing about their activities. Perhaps they can schedule interviews. Gather media coverage for the military. Garner some headlines. "Military Pilots Prove Pot and Hard Work DO Mix," "Military Pilots Live Unorthodox Lifestyle," "Military Pilots Court-Martialed for Illegal Drug Use" - that sort of thing.

10

Rather weird how pot gets demonized and alcohol glorified when it is alcohol that kills huge numbers and has by far the greater negative impact on children, spouses, work, and society in general. Yet a joint can land you in jail and sharing a drink is a time honored way to talk business and socialize.

11

@Joe Carter - Are you serious, or is this strictly humor?
@Pieter Friedrich - Are YOU serious?? :)

12

Pat, you're a riot! Wrecked careers? I don't think so. Also there are a number of causes for diabetes and death, marijuana being notably missing from the list.

Speaking of lists, here's another short one for you to ponder. See if you can discover how pot has "ruined" each of them.

Montel Williams,
Stacy Keaton,
Woody Harrelson,
Merl Haggard,
John F. Kennedy,
Bobby Kennedy,
Dick Cheney,
Hank Williams, Jr.,
Alan Alda,
Louis Armstrong,
Arnold Schwartzenegger, and
my brother, who has been a vice-president and regional manager for several large multi-national companies (that's regional sales manager, for instance, for South and Central America)that specialize in a product and a service that about 80% of the civilized world uses. He recently left all that to start his own company.

Pieter, I can't remember those pilots' names. We were toking up back about the time that our Vietnam adventure came to an end, though we were here in the States, so that's been about thirty years ago. I remember an archeaologist named David. And one of those skydivers, who was also an anesthesiologist, was named Chris. And an EMT whose name was Bobby. Don't recall any of their careers coming to an end.

Just about everything you have been told about marijuana by your government has been a lie. That's why it's still very much around.

13

Jerry, wow, man, your life sounds really exciting. You know soooooooooo many cool people. Maybe you should make a documentary about yourself and all your cool friends, dude.

Oh, wait, was "Beautiful Mind" about you? Where you had those imaginary friends? Maybe our anti-reefer government made them take out the parts where you were torching up, dude.

14

OK, since this is a list without any attribution then here goes. Montel Williams ill with MS, Merle Haggard threw his career away decades ago, Hank Williams, Jr. almost died in a car wreck when under the influence, Woody Harrelson is a poster boy for how pot makes you stupid and unbankable, JFK and RFK got on your list from back issues of High Times, Alda and Cheney maybe but see comment concerning JFK and RFK, Schwartzenegger has probably been partaking as that would explain his bizarre political instincts lately, and finally Louis Armstrong, dead, but My Funny Valentine means all is forgiven. Stacy Keaton? Aside from the stoner argument, that all my smart friends are doing it, defending the use of marijuana as no more deadly or damaging as alcohol is solipsism of the highest order. Sometimes just sometimes the rest of socity might be right.

15

Jerry: Now I understand where you get so many of your ideas from. Thanks for clearing things up for us!

16

You know, I never actually knew about 420 until I got to college... *led a sheltered childhood*

17

Some of these comments are as hilarious as the blog entry, hehehe.

18

Hank, you're absolutely right. I'm so sure Joe Carter, one of the top Christian bloggers on the net, is cynical about keeping kids away from corrupting influences. It's evident that he's not at all serious about being a good Christian parent. For all we know, he could be roasting one right now. Thanks so much for your illuminating wisdom on this matter. A pox on your house, Joe Carter, for your heathen humor!

Get real.

19

Sorry, Stacy Keach, not Keaton; I guess all that dope has affected my memory, after all.

Pat, your reply doesn't hold water. People die, careers go up and down without marijuana, and car wrecks happen to a lot of people, especially alcoholic country music star sons of alcoholic country music stars. Montel is probably smoking pot because it has been shown to help MS patients, as well as others with neurological problems. Armstrong died from smoking pot after what?, 88 years of life? Schwartzenegger is sleeping with a Democrat, he is a very intelligent man, he can grab ass and get away with it, and he's the Governator. Why not blame his shrewd political (erratic?)behavior on his past steroid use?

Funny you mention smart friends, since studies have shown that most marijuana users are among the most intelligent members of their peer groups. That includes me and my IQ of 128.

I got my ideas, Cheese, from refusing to ingest the pablum that was offered me in school and in church, from critically analyzing the issues of the day using my own faculties, and coming to my own conclusions without the crutch of religion or tradition.

Call me a solipsist if you will, which I kinda like that anyway, but society has not always been the best judge of which direction to head. I'll trust myself thank you, the rest of you can run into the ocean with the crowd.

I'll go you one further: marijuana is better for society than alcohol, not just less evil. The government won't allow research, so what we know has come hard and mostly from overseas. It has many medical uses and benefits. Funny how the nurses, the AMA, and the ABA have endorsed decriminalization. Funny how no commission ever appointed by a government or leader has ever recommended stiffer penalties, rather, just the opposite. Funny how the lesson of alcohol prohibition taught us nothing, you know, how illegal alcohol led to the establishment of the Mafia? Remind you of the gang warfare we see today? The organized black, Latino, and Asian dominance of the drug trade? A new Prohibition?

And that 4:20 thing..where did that come from? I never thought dope smokers were that punctual!

20

Yes, thank you, Pauli, my life has been exciting, and wonderful too. And enviously cool, too, I can tell.

I had marriage counseling (which I suggested) when going through my last divorce. Our counselor was a psychiatric nurse. She said that I was the most well-adjusted person she had ever met.

No imaginary friends or government conspiracies, thank you. I do just fine by myself.

21

Hysterical,
You've put the Fun back in Fundamentalist!
Thanx.
Dry Bones
Israel's Political Comic Strip Since 1973

22

Jerry wrote:
> Our counselor was a psychiatric nurse. She said that
> I was the most well-adjusted person she had ever met.

Enviously cool, indeed. Better luck with your next marriage, Jerry.

23

Dear Abby,

You're a dingbat. Of course drugs are bad. So is Freemasonry and government conspiracies. All people should quit those things.

24

"@Pieter Friedrich - Are YOU serious?? :)"

Of course. Illegal drug use in the military will get you kicked out, if not worse.

"Rather weird how pot gets demonized and alcohol glorified when it is alcohol that kills huge numbers and has by far the greater negative impact on children, spouses, work, and society in general."

Well, if we're talking military here - sure, you're allowed to drink off-duty, but if you show up drunk to work and you may not get kicked out, but you'll get in serious trouble.

25

Is there anything more pathetic than bragging about your IQ in an internet comments section?

Jerry, you remind me of Fredo when he found out Michael was going to run the family--"I'm smart. I'm smart"

"That's the way pop wanted it" was all Michael said.

How are you lungs by the way?

26

No brag, just fact. A fact to back up my statement about "the studies (that)have shown that most marijuana users are among the most intelligent members of their peer groups".

Pathetic? Who are Fredo and Michael? Are you quoting from "The Godfather"? Our references are worlds apart, science on the one hand, and Hollywood on the other.

Funny you should express a false concern for my lungs. They do happen to be damaged.

I lost part of one at age 25. When I asked my doctor why I had the sudden uncontrollable bleeding, he said it could have been a number of things. Asthma when I was very young. Excessive sneezing with my later hay fever. Marlboro cigarettes. Paraquat-contaminated pot, courtesy of the War on Drugs. Installing fiberglass insulation in a crawl space without a mask. Congenital hereditary weakness in blood vessel walls. He didn't know. Neither do I. I doubt you do either. Thirty years later, here I am, still able to do more work than most 20-somethings of today's world, smoking both legal and illegal weeds all that time, carpentering, clinbing scaffolds, carrying 2x6's, swinging sledgehammers, working......uupps, there I go bragging again.

27

Have a nice day

28

Wow. The earnest and the stoned on parade (not to mention the first-class hilarious post).

To the stoned just let me say,

Duuude!

and

How's it workin' out for ya?

To the immune to/suspicious of good humor, I have already dedicated this.

29

Thanks for the light-hearted treatment of a very devastating situation ... my old ToughLove group would have enoyed it. Dealing with a son who had a drug problem was one of the most difficult things that i have ever done ... it was humbling and devastated me on the inside. When I reached out to others (i.e. ToughLove group) I found the strength to deal with my sons issues.

30

A salute to Kansas Bob;

I'm betting Bob's son's problem was not marijuana.

There can probably be nothing more devastating than seeing a child that you love be sucked down life's toilet into a serious drug addiction. For a parent, whose life has been filled with the benefits our country has to offer, the surrender of one's independence and freedom to the slavery of addiction is both a shame and a sin, and an unfathomable act. I won't mention anger, heartbreak, and the perceived guilt of failure.

I have no answers.

The thing to remember is that addiction, and any kind of abuse, is a symtom. A symtom of something else, a self-medication. I have seen people addicted to TV, Jesus, soap operas, money, gambling, alcohol. It's all only a salve for a troubled soul.

I hope that Bob can come to peace.

31

Anyone with an IQ worth bragging about should know by now that IQ is a terrible way to measure intelligence, as that's not what it's intended for at all. It merely measures ability.

32

I can't imagine why the National High IQ Society, Mensa, and others would be giving these tests when they don't really measure intelligence. Must be a bunch of dummies.

My point being missed. Most people who smoke marijuana are above average in ability and intelligence; that was my point. My score was merely reinforcement of my argument. Not meant to be the focus of ego-hunters.

I started smoking pot 37 years ago. Back then, and especially in Mississippi, we hippies were the intelligentsia, the unconventional, the pioneers. Not sure the smokers of today are of the same class. Our drug use was a symptom of rebellion and anti-establishmentarianism, and a sign that we were not a group who swallowed the party line without question. It carried over to my middle age as well, for I still find myself anti-government today. The reasons are that I have not changed much, nor has the government. One of the biggest reasons the government continues it's campaign against the weed is that the people who smoke it also seem to be independent thinkers who often challenge the status quo. George Bush (or Ronald Reagan, or Richard Nixon)can't stand it when everyone doesn't just get on board and acquiesce to the latest war or law they are pushing. Sorry, Charlie, I think for myself.

Not to lose sight of humor, Joe's post was funny. I could think of a few solutions myself. That 4:20 till gets me though; never heard of it, though I understand that's about "tea-time" for the Brits.

33

To those who illegally smoke pot: you may THINK you know better then the rest of us. You may well indeed be right, and the rest of us wrong. BUT we did make pot illegal in most places in the US. What other areas of life are you smarter then us? Perhaps homicide is a ridiculus notion for those of you uber-men. What should be forbidden for those who know so much? Why should you allow common people to forbid you anything?

The fact is, pot is illegal. When you buy pot, you are putting money in criminals hands. Criminals who think nothing of using violence to protect the good thing they got going.

I am a cop. I have personally been threatened by marijuana dealers whose lives we made to uncomfortable. My partner was asked by one rich, infamous supplier, how his five kids were doing? How did he like his nice house at 123 Main St.?

So no, I don't have much sympathy for you poor maligned pot heads.

34

This is supposedly the origin of 420 (copied from http://parentingteens.about.com/cs/marijuana/a/420meaning.htm):

Known Myths

Police dispatch code for smoking pot is 420. The number 420 is not police radio code for anything, anywhere. Checks of criminal codes suggest that the origin is neither Californian nor federal. For instance, California Penal Code 420 defines as a misdemeanor the hindrance of use of public lands.
There are approximately 420 active chemicals in marijuana. Actually, there are approximately 315 active chemicals in marijuana. This number goes up and down depending on which plant is used.
April 20th is National Pot Smokers Day. Well, it is now; but that wasn't the origin.
April 20th is Hitler's birthday. Yes, it is his birthday. But, as 420 started out as a time, not a date, his birthday had nothing to do with it.
April 20th is the date of the Columbine school shootings. This happened after the term was already in use.
4:20 is tea time for pot-smokers in Holland. Tea time in Holland is at 5:30 pm, or is it 2:30 pm? Seems no one is quite sure when the wonderful people of Holland drink their tea.
The Origin Revealed
According to Steven Hager, editor of High Times, the term 420 originated at San Rafael High School, in 1971, among a group of about a dozen pot-smoking wiseacres who called themselves the Waldos, who are now pushing 50. The term was shorthand for the time of day the group would meet, at the campus statue of Louis Pasteur, to smoke pot. Intent on developing their own discreet language, they made 420 code for a time to get high, and its use spread among members of an entire generation. While our teens feel that they know something we don't, you can let them in on the fact that it was your generation that came up with the numbers.

A quote from one of the Waldos in the High Times article states, "We did discover we could talk about getting high in front of our parents without them knowing by using the phrase 420." Fortunately, your teenagers will not have that same option.

Whatever!

Simply put, 420 is a symbol of cannabis and its culture. Today, April 20th events are international, and 4:20 pm has become sort of a world wide "burn time". It certainly doesn't matter too much where the term came from because for us parents, it's a flag, a warning sign that our teenagers may be into something that could harm their future. When you see the symbol 420, be aware of what it represents.

35

Late comment, today(3/13/06) in Reuters an article, based on research published in the Neurology magazine, found that both short and long term marijuana users
suffered "deficits in mental abilities" ranging from subtle to significant. I have a strong suspicion that further demands for study on marijuananusage mirrors a desire to find a study that paints a glowing picture of its use. Much like the studies that "proved" the severly autistic could communicate. I guess that most people, the voters, have concluded that marijuana use makes people stupid not brilliant.

36

I'll have to look at that pat, since all previous research has shown pretty much the opposite.

FDR, you reinforce what we have been saying for quite some time, the power attributed to pot and its punishments far outweighs any damage it may do. The laws against it are worse than the crime. The worst thing about marijuana use is the laws against it. Most cops today think the worst thing about pot is the paperwork.

Pot will never be approved by the FDA; it doesn't have enough bad side effects. (think Vioxx and a host of others)

37

Pat, your comments require a serious response:

"Late comment, today(3/13/06) in Reuters an article, based on research published in the Neurology magazine, found that both short and long term marijuana users
suffered "deficits in mental abilities" ranging from subtle to significant. I have a strong suspicion that further demands for study on marijuananusage mirrors a desire to find a study that paints a glowing picture of its use. Much like the studies that "proved" the severly autistic could communicate. I guess that most people, the voters, have concluded that marijuana use makes people stupid not brilliant."

The study you cite is apparently a Greek one and uses 64 subjects, a small study by any standards. However, barring any procedural errors by the authors, I'll keep this study in mind. It hardly compares to British, Canadian, and Jamaican studies using hundreds of subjects which found little to no adverse long term effects from cannabis use.

Demands for further study: this is a mixed bag.
Richard Nixon commisioned a study that he hoped to use to pass stricter drug laws. Instead, his commision brought in results diametrically opposite of what Tricky Dick had hoped for, even suggesting that marijuana should be decriminalized. Politician call for more studies because they are stalling; they are stalling because the tobacco and liquor industries that line their pockets want to keep marijuana illegal, something to do with sales figures, I believe. Most of the below-listed organizations call for more studies because they really do want to know the whole truth and all the possible benefits for their patients, and research on marijuana is almost nil now in this country.

What follows is only a partial list of organizations calling for the decriminalization of cannabis and/or for more studies to prove scientifically its efficacy in the treatment of MS, Parkinson's, AIDS, ALS, cancer, glaucoma, anorexia, and brain trauma.

The American Medical Association
The New England Journal of Medicine
The National Institutes of Health
The American Cancer Society
The British Medical Journal
The Multiple Sclerosis Foundations of Great Britain and Canada
The British Medical Association
The British House of Lords
The American Academy of Family Physicians
The American Public Health Association
The National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine
The Health Ministries of Belgium and France
The Australian Medical Association
The Federation of American Scientists
and the Nurses Associations of Alaska, California, Colorado, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Mississippi, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island, Virginia, and Wisconsin.

As for the people, well, pot has been decriminalized in many areas of the country, per voter mandate. Here in Mississippi, and in parts of Michigan, California, Oregon, and a few other states, it is about as serious as a speeding ticket. Medical use has been approved by the voters in California, but the Federals stuck their noses into the state's business there, in effect, killing people. For the government to intrude upon the doctor-patient relationship in a matter that may ease suffering and save lives is not only unconstitutional, but a sin as well. And this from an administration that hypocritically claims to be pro-life.

Well, I think I've refuted your arguments roundly, Pat. But keep looking at the research, by all means, just look at all of it in the future.

38

Sorry, I remain unconvinced primarily from my own experience and the fact that in this debate I seem to have been the only one who offered an attributable source for my views. Plus a laundry list of various professional organizations is hardly proof that any serious thought went into these groups positions.

39

Federation of American Scientists
"Based on much evidence, from patients and doctors alike, on the superior effectiveness and safety of whole cannabis compared to other medications, … the President should instruct the NIH and the Food and Drug Administration to make efforts to enroll seriously ill patients whose physicians believe that whole cannabis would be helpful to their conditions in clinical trials, both to allow data-gathering and to provide an alternative to the black market while the scientific questions about the possible utility of cannabis are resolved."
Reference: FAS Petition on Medical Marijuana, November 1994

National Academy of Sciences Institute of Medicine (IOM)
"Scientific data indicate the potential therapeutic value of cannabinoid drugs, primarily THC, for pain relief, control of nausea and vomiting, and appetite stimulation. … For certain patients, such as the terminally ill or those with debilitating symptoms, the long-term risks [associated with smoking] are not of great concern. … [Therefore,] clinical trials of marijuana for medical purposes should be conducted. … There are patients with debilitating symptoms for whom smoked marijuana might provide relief. … Except for the harms associated with smoking, the adverse effects of marijuana use are within the range of effects tolerated for other medications."
Reference: "Marijuana as Medicine: Assessing the Science Base," National Academy Press: Washington, DC. 1999

New England Journal of Medicine
"Federal authorities should rescind their prohibition of the medical use of marijuana for seriously ill patients and allow physicians to decide which patients to treat. The government should change marijuana's status from that of a Schedule I drug ... to that of a Schedule II drug ... and regulate it accordingly."
Reference: Editorial by NEJM editor Dr. Jerome Kassirer, January 30, 1997

American Medical Association
"The AMA recommend that adequate and well-controlled studies of smoked marijuana be conducted in patients who have serious conditions for which preclinical, anecdotal, or controlled evidence suggests possible efficacy in including AIDS wasting syndrome, sever acute or delayed emesis induced by chemotherapy, multiple sclerosis, spinal cord injury, dystonia, and neuropathic pain."
Reference: Council on Scientific Affairs Report #10: Medical Marijuana

British Medical Journal
"The role of cannabinoids in modern therapeutics remains uncertain, but the evidence … shows that it would be irrational not to explore it. The active components of a plant which has been prized as a medicine for thousands of years should not be discarded lightly, and certainly not through political expediency or as a casualty of the war on drugs."
Reference: editorial of the BMJ, April 4, 1998
British House of Lords Select Committee on Science and Technology
"Cannabis can be effective in some patients to relieve the symptoms of MS, and against certain forms of pain. This evidence is enough to justify a change in the law. … The Government should allow doctors to prescribe cannabis for medical use: this is the conclusion of a report by the House of Lords Science and Technology Committee, published today."
Reference: Press release ("Lords Say: Legalise Cannabis for Medical Use") of the House of Lords: November 11, 1998.

These are the medical references. Other references are available, including those on the ramifications of recreational use and marijuana laws.

Wouldn't you agree that any medicine that reduces suffering or improves a chronic illness with very few minor side effects should be legal?

I cannot name the doctors (for obvious reasons) nor could I say under oath that this in fact happened, but I heard of two cases of terminal cancer patients being advised to buy some illegal pot to ease their pain and increase their appetites. The two patients were my mother and a very close friend.

40

None of the citations are actually references to studies except to refer to unnamed studies to ask for a political solution to the problem, ie. either calling for legalization or more government funded study. I'll gladly read up on any actual study but not an endorsement list from NORML.

41

The references are there if you care to look them up. This list is only a partial one, which could be used as a bibliography. But you stated earlier that these people probably didn't put much thought into the statements they made, which, incidentally, I think is an extraordinary statement on your part, so what they may have to say to you is probably irrelevent. That being said, I know you're not going to be doing any serious marijuana research any time soon because your mind has already closed around the answer that you have determined and there will be no changing that.

The first and primary thing you must understand is that we are asking for more research to see if this might be a medicine that could ease suffering. Headache relief and recreational use can wait. If, as many anectdotal and some scientific reports have indicated, marijuana may dampen the symtoms of Parkinson's and MS, if marijauana can cure glaucoma, if marijuana has been used for centuries as an analgesic for severe menstrual cramps and childbirth, then why would a compassionate and Christian person not want more research?

Answer me, Pat.

42

The citations you mentioned are, as I stated before the political positions of these groups. And as before they all refer to studies yet do not provide them. I'll make a general comment on how associations many times have statements made on their behalf without either a vote or much study, for example Carl Sagan and the Union of Concerned Scientists demand that something be done to prevent global cooling in the late 70's. I also interested how my original comment concerning the stupidity of celebrity usage of marijuana made absolutely no reference to medicinal use. This conflating of the two issues is a tiresome tactic. The simple research that I did seems to suggest that the studies either range from inconsequential damage from marijuana use to serious, especially among schizophrenics. I'll admit to not being an expert but I know enough about researching a topic to know the difference between touting a position on an issue and providing a study on it. I did indeed read one article(of your cited articles), AMA Council of Scientific Affairs Report #10 which clearly state at the outset that "the AMA opposes the legalization of the sale and possession of marijuana". The main point of the article suggests that some of the chemicals in marijuana have an anti-emetic effect, which seems to be also available from man-made chemical doses. Not exactly a ringing endorsement for either legalization or efficacy. But the article did talk about the use of Marinol, which seems to be completely absent from the NORML web site.