1

You think Planes, Trians, and Automobiles is over- rated? Why? I'd take it over Pretty in Pink or the Breakfast Club.

2

Also, I think Miller's Crossing, though more obscure, is better rated than Scarface.

3

Yes! Yes! Boiler Room is absolutely underrated. Affleck's speech in the conference room to the newbies exceeds anything Gecko uttered in Wall Street.

4

No list of most overrated films can be complete without mentioning "The Big Chill" (or any William Hurt film except, maybe, The Accidental Tourist). Oh, and speaking of Genna Davis "The Long Kiss Goodnight" was way underrated.

5

I think I disagree with at least 1/2 of what you wrote above...

Yes, Easy Rider, Field of Dreams, Inteview with the Vampire are overrated.

House of Flying Daggers is seriously underrated, and is so under-rated in fact it should have appeared in your list of underrated Chinese movies. But then again, you left out "Shadow Magic," "King of Masks," and a host of other films showing, well, how under-rated they are.

Wag the Dog, simply isn't a great movie, and I suspect, reviews of it notwithstanding, it's already forgotten.

Thelma and Louise is still a great movie, although only watchable in small doses.

Al Pacino's Scarface was on the other night. I used to hate this film, but watching it 22 years later, it's not only watchable, but engrossing in a time-capsule way that the original was.

No movie based on a sitcom can be too highly underrated. Except possibly The Nude Bomb, and that only in a sense that it's so bad it's good.

No Batman movie can be too highly overrated. Including Batman begins.

Underrated movie in the genre? The Shadow.

Frosty the Snowman captivated me - at least for 30 seconds- when it was on when I visited the video store recently. And that was because they appropriated the running gag from one of the greatest comedies of all time,That Fatal Glass of Beer.

Flock ate post of mine on "videracy," which is my term for the video analog of "literacy," which is to say, in the Alan Bloom way, you can't really know about video enough to comment on it intelligently (in my admittedly elitist view) if you haven't seen certain things. That Fatal Glass of Beer, Duck Soup, and Metropolitan are among them.

I think I'll try to resurrect that post...

6

Correction:

No Batman movie can be too highly UNDERRATED Including Batman begins.

7

Joe, Joe, Joe:

Big Jake is my all time favorite Wayne flick. "DOG!" Anyway, you are right on there.

The Superman/Hellboy comparison is interesting. Hellboy is a far superior movie, but Superman 2 is in the top three of all comicbook movies -- and of course Spider-man 2 is the best of all time, but then everyone has seen it.

I know I am in the minority but I prefer Batman to Batman Begins. Begins is too dark and gritty. I prefer my Batman dark and comic-like. Besides Nicholson as Joker may be the best bit of casting in the history of film, far superior to Liam as Ras. A hero is always made by his villians.

Finally, it is impossible to overrate 2001. As scifi perhaps, but not as film. It contains not a whit of exposition - that fact alone makes it the preeminent example fo the film-making art. It's effects hold up today and it was made in the '60's! It is admittedly not that accessible, but it is just fine film-making.

8

As promised or threatened, here's my post on "videracy."

Please feel free to add your own comments...

9

Movie about amoral businessmen: Wall Street | Boiler Room

I agree WALL STREET is overrated, but I would put GLENGARRY GLEN ROSS as the most underrated film about amoral businessmen. The dialogue simply sizzles, and the desperation of the "down" salesman is palpable.

I loved seeing MILLER'S CROSSING included. You're right, as you are with GALLIPOLI and BREAKER MORANT.

The latter is a great exposition of the ambiguities of insurgent/guerilla warfare, of which the Boer War (the setting of BREAKER MORANT) was probably one of the first, at least as encountered by a Western army. (Yes, I know elements of the Civil War were similar, particularly with Quantrill's Raiders, but hey, this is a post about movies, not warfare.)

10

Glengary Glen Ross is 97% fresh at Rotten Tomatoes. How can it be underrated?

11

Censorship! And the target? A post that actually had something to do with Thanksgiving.

Interesting.

12

Glengary Glen Ross is 97% fresh at Rotten Tomatoes. How can it be underrated?

Yes, perhaps I'm just comparing it to BOILER ROOM as the better of the two, well, "boiler room"-type movies.

13

Joe, I think your choices date you as much as mine do me (I'm guessing I'm about 15 years older than you).

I agree Raising Arizona, Moulin Rouge, and especially The Mighty Quinn are underrated (although as a movie Quinn is not in the same class as the other two, but among Denzel's films it's underrated — I'm just glad to see someone else even saw it).

I don't think these are overrated: Animal House: a truly funny, very silly movie. Ditto for Belushi. Witness: maybe because I grew up in Pennsylvania around the Amish. Dr Strangelove: a movie for the ages, brilliance everwhere. American Beauty: a nearly perfect film (I'd replace it with the very overrated *Gladiator*).

2001: A Space Odyssey, Easy Rider, and Chariots of Fire are true classics, made excellent/innovative use of music (and silence), were more tone poems than traditional films, and didn't make use of well known stars.

How can Gandhi be overrated? Or is that your Christian bias showing through?

Roman Holiday can't be underrated because it's widely acknowledged as a great movie.

I'd replace Dangerous Liaisons with Milos Forman's Valmont.

A martial arts movie cannot be underrated. Ditto for the X-Men movies (what a waste of acting talent).

Here's a radical thought: replace Kingpin (which I found unwatchable) with Bend it Like Beckham in the underrated sports category.

14

Wow Joe! Do you ever take a break? It worries me how many films the average American has seen. It's what passes for community I guess.

15

Yes! Valmont kicks DL's pasty white American behind.

Almost every actor in Valmont did a superior job than the one in Dangerous Liasons. Which isn't to say that, for example, John Malkovich did a poor job in the lead, but Colin Firth was simply spectacular.

I have to agree, also, with AndyS about Dr. Strangelove, 2001, and Chariots of Fire. All films I've seen several times with delight. I also agree that Gladiator was astonishingly bad, and should easily bump American Beauty from the "Overrated Best Picture" category. Oh, and didn't "Ordinary People" win Best Picture? That movie was stupifyingly bad.

One more nit-pick: "The Truth About Cats and Dogs" was not a good movie. In the "modernized Cyrano" category, it is completely crushed by "Roxanne," which is more clever, more engaging, and even (gasp!) more romantic.

But a great list still, Joe. You list three of my favorite Coen brothers movies, and I must have seen "Some Kind of Wonderful" ten times when I was in high school. I know I saw it at least five times in the theater.

16

I don't think you can pit Wall Street vs. Boiler Room. I see it more of a triligy of Wall Street, Glenn Gary, then Boiler Room. I've done that marathon a number of times. They each bring something different, and I enjoy Boiler Room the most (followed by GGGR) but all are worthy.

Big Chris
Because I said so blog

17

Raging Bull is overrated? Wow. Reminds one of when Britney Spears called the Beatles overrated.

Apparently my comment on the Jarhead thread was prophetic:

"[Although Jarhead is no classic, it is a good film.] I take it that those finding themselves bored were similarly unimpressed by Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, etc."

Damn all those overrated pagans. Oh, wait—that's a done deal. Yay!

18

Dark City? I disagree strongly. Everything else is, I pretty much agree on including Hellboy.

19

John Schroeder: Your point on villians was well made but not noted in your first sentance. Without Richard Boone, would Big Jake be your favorite John Wayne movie?

20

Couldn't agree more with "Some Kind of Wonderful", the most underrated John Hughes film. Also, It Happened One Night can not be highly rated enough. The best romantic comedy ever made, IMHO.

However, I had to do a double-take on Brotherhood of the Wolf. This is a shameless piece of atheist propaganda whose tagline should have been: An Enlightenment fairy tale from the same people who brought you the reign of terror. Seriously, if you want a great movie about atheism, The Seventh Seal will do. BoTW is junk.

21

Well your list mainly demonstrates that i watch far fewer movies than other people but I have to make a few comments.
2001 is an excruciatingly boring movie because it adheres quite closely to the book and Arthur Clarke never wrote a thing that was not excruciatingly boring.
I believe I would say High Noon is the most underrated Western of all time. Due to its underlying themes John wayne once declared it wasn't even a Western.
As far as underrated comedies, I would pick any Preston Sturgess flick, although Raising Arizona is pretty enjoyable.
you hit the nail on the head with Breaker Morant. One reason its underappreciated is that it pretty obviously referred to Viet Nam in a rather unPC way.
Lastly, let me just say that to call the Searchers overrated is hard to read. First, there is some humor in it. But it is necessarly somewht muted due to the issues of rape, murder racism and revenge. That's why its called a drama.
And the central theme of The Searchers is love. Ethan's redemption from cold hearted hatred, racism and revenge to the love of little Natalie Wood in the end is the whole point of the flick. A very Christian theme as a matter of fact; fairly analagous to Paul's life.

PS. Does anyone else think Night of the Hunter is severly underrated? Still gives me the creeps.

22

Brian:

I agree with you on The Searchers. I've seen Big Jake and I don't remember much about it. Now I would like to see it again, just to reevaluate. But I love the Searchers. The acting of Wayne, and jeff hunter and especially Ward Bond is great. There are many wonderful scenes including the one where Wayne says, "Whaddaya want me to do? Draw you a picture? Don't ever ask me that again!!" Also many humourous scenes. Also, the movie IS about love on at least two levels, including the love story between Jeff Hunter and Lorena.

Joe:

Your list has some flaws, but it's still fun.

23

I've discovered one instance in which you, Joe, are completely wrong.

Star Wars Episode IV is NOT a sequel. It is the original. Could you be thinking of Episode I: The Phantom Menace? A good film if you're willing to jettison expectations, but a vastly overrated one from an expectations standpoint.

24

I'm not sure what its underrated counterpart would be, but Blue Velvet is surely one of the all-time most overrated movies in any category.

25

Actually, the reason 2001 "adheres" so closely to the book is that the screenplay was written first. Clark wrote a short story called "The Sentinel" which inspired Stanley Kubrick to bring him in and co-write the screenplay for 2001. Clark then novelized the screenplay after-the-fact.

I'm not a fan of Clark's novels, but several of his short stories are interesting, including "The Nine Billion Names of God," and the aforementioned "The Sentinel."

26

Nathan You think Planes, Trians, and Automobiles is over- rated? Why? I'd take it over Pretty in Pink or the Breakfast Club.

The critics loved PTA yet bashed The Breakfast Club. But stop any Gen-Xer and ask them to quote a line from each movie and you’ll see which one has held up over time.

Also, I think Miller's Crossing, though more obscure, is better rated than Scarface.

Unlike the above example, this is one that the critics adored and the public ignored. Scarface is a lowest common-denominator film that has an appeal for wannabe thugs. Most of the people who like it wouldn’t understand the appeal of MC.

sunspot No list of most overrated films can be complete without mentioning "The Big Chill" (or any William Hurt film except, maybe, The Accidental Tourist). Oh, and speaking of Genna Davis "The Long Kiss Goodnight" was way underrated.

Agreed on all three.

John S [2001] is admittedly not that accessible, but it is just fine film-making.

I agree that is it a well-crafted film. But that is hardly enough for it to warrant the praise heaped upon it over the past few decades.

Tom I agree WALL STREET is overrated, but I would put GLENGARRY GLEN ROSS as the most underrated film about amoral businessmen. The dialogue simply sizzles, and the desperation of the "down" salesman is palpable.

While I agree that GGR is underrated (at least in most circles), it relies too much on the Alec Baldwin scene. Without that one scene the entire movie would be boring and unwatchable yet it could be cut-out (or revised significantly) without affecting the plot. That’s what keeps the movie from achieving greatness.

AndyS Animal House: a truly funny, very silly movie. Ditto for Belushi.

The movie had some good lines but hasn’t aged well as a whole. And when the “Belushi” name is remembered by generations it will be because of Jim, not John.

Witness: maybe because I grew up in Pennsylvania around the Amish.

I thought it was a good film, just not as great as the critics claim.

Dr Strangelove: a movie for the ages, brilliance everwhere.

The problem with Strangelove is that is attempts to be satire yet hasn’t a clue about the people it mocks. For satire to attain the realm of “brilliance” there must be some correspondence between what you are mocking and the people being mocked. Strangelove is mocking a strawman of what 60s-era Hollywood thought the Cold War was about rather than what it really was. (By the way, almost everything by Kubrick is overrated.)

How can Gandhi be overrated? Or is that your Christian bias showing through?

Not at all. The problem with the movie Gandhi is that it wasn’t a truly accurate portrayal of the man. It presented a cardboard saint rather than an intriguingly complex and flawed human being.

Roman Holiday can't be underrated because it's widely acknowledged as a great movie.

Perhaps, but I suspect that the ratio of people who have seen “Breakfast” compared to RH is at least 5:1.

Here's a radical thought: replace Kingpin (which I found unwatchable) with Bend it Like Beckham in the underrated sports category.

"Bend it Like Beckham" is a good move but it doesn't yet qualify for underrated status.

RobbL One more nit-pick: "The Truth About Cats and Dogs" was not a good movie. In the "modernized Cyrano" category, it is completely crushed by "Roxanne," which is more clever, more engaging, and even (gasp!) more romantic.

Dude, the category was “chick-flicks.” Roxanne is a guys version of a romantic movie (ditto The Princess Bride) so it doesn’t count.

Ed Raging Bull is overrated? Wow. Reminds one of when Britney Spears called the Beatles overrated.

Raging Bull is probably one of the few in the overrated column that is not worth watching at all. It's just terrible film.

Damn all those overrated pagans.

Um, RB and Taxi Driver were both written by Paul Schrader, a lapsed Calvinist, and Martin Scorsese, a Catholic. How can they be considered “pagans?”

Steve Dark City? I disagree strongly.

Give it a second chance. I didn’t like it the first time I saw it either.

John However, I had to do a double-take on Brotherhood of the Wolf. This is a shameless piece of atheist propaganda whose tagline should have been:

Hmm, I didn’t get that sense at all. Maybe I missed something.

Brian I believe I would say High Noon is the most underrated Western of all time.

But on almost every critic’s list of favorite movies in the Western genre High Noon is near the top.

Lastly, let me just say that to call the Searchers overrated is hard to read.

I’m not saying it’s not a great movie. But the only reason that it has received such critical acclaim is that it deals with an issue (racism) that is near and dear to liberals.

Ethan's redemption from cold hearted hatred, racism and revenge to the love of little Natalie Wood in the end is the whole point of the flick. A very Christian theme as a matter of fact; fairly analagous to Paul's life.

I’m not sure I quite agree with you there. Ethan intended to kill Wood and changed his mind. Yet in the end of the film he is still an unreconstructed racist. That isn’t exactly a parallel to Paul.

The Deaf Jedi Star Wars Episode IV is NOT a sequel. It is the original. Could you be thinking of Episode I: The Phantom Menace?

No, I meant Star Wars, a movie that George Lucas classifies as a “sequel.” Those of us who were around to see the original release in ’77 (I was 8 at the time) probably think of it as the “original” film. But what about teens who see it today? If they watch them in the order that Lucas’ intends then that film will be considered a sequel.

27

Joe--Easily the most underrated Batman movie is the orginal with Adam West and Burt Ward. The seen where Batman is trying to get rid of a bomb, but is thwarted at every turn by nuns and duck, among others is comic genius.

28

The seen where Batman is trying to get rid of a bomb, but is thwarted at every turn by nuns and duck, among others is comic genius.

Obviously seen should be scene. Doh!!

29

To RobbLMonkey,
I stand corrected on whether the novel (2001) or movie came first. They both still bore me out of my skull. I can't convey the tedium my high school english class endured while bulldozing our way through Childhood's End.

To Joe:
Sorry, I meant to say High Noon was overrated not underrated but you seemed to get the drift.

As far as the critics loving it, I'll trample another sacred cow by pointing out they all love what I consider another overrated bore, Citizen Kane. I can think of at least four Orson Wells movies that are vastly more enjoyable than it.

As far as why the critics love The Searchers, who cares. I kind of got the idea you meant these things were under/overrated by the public. If not, my mistake.

As far as the Duke's intent to kill cute little Natalie; didn't Paul have the same intent toward Christian's on the road to Damascus? And my take on Ethan's change of heart is that it represented a true change of heart not just affection for his niece. I believe Ford is trying to show us that the anger that Ethan demonstrated at the start of the movie as a residual of the Civil War and exacerbated by Scar was drained out of him by the raid on the Indian's camp and the rescue of Wood. "He changed his mind"....isn't that a form of repentence? Quite a difference from the guy who earlier in the flick had growled at Ward Bond to "put an Amen to it!" as Bond prayed for the dead.

I'll add that Winchester 73 is a real sleeper, as you pointed out.
Another one is The Westerner with Gary Cooper and Walter Brennan. Perfect writing.

One last candidate; its underrated by lefties and valued by righties for some silly reasons, and that's Dirty Harry. Looked at as just a cop story its nearly perfect.

30

The key word is "lapsed." I went to church as a 5 year-old, now a materialist. Does that make me a lapsed-Lutheran non-pagan?

I thought Catholics were pagans anyway.

Also, making Raging Bull a film was De Niro's idea, and here is an Inside the Actors Studio quote from memory:

Lipton: "If heaven exists, what would you like to hear god say when you arrive?"

De Niro: "If heaven exists, he has a lot of explaining to do."

Now, there are likely volumes of literature on the merits of Raging Bull, so I won't waste space extolling them individually, but what is it you dislike about the film?

If it weren't for RB, we wouldn't have the immortal Joe Pesci quote, "I try to f*** anything." I can't imagine life without that in the arsenal.

31

The Searchers overrated?--"That'll be the day!"

32

[i]The problem with Strangelove is that is attempts to be satire yet hasn’t a clue about the people it mocks. For satire to attain the realm of “brilliance” there must be some correspondence between what you are mocking and the people being mocked. Strangelove is mocking a strawman of what 60s-era Hollywood thought the Cold War was about rather than what it really was. (By the way, almost everything by Kubrick is overrated.)[/i]

Strangelove did have some legitimate targets. Both Ripper and Turgidsen are based on Gen. Curtis LeMay, the overly hawkish General during the sixties. It helps to know that it wasn't a satire on the Cold War, but on humanity itself. That our leaders are so stupid that they'll destroy the entire world in the process, and that's just because they've done the most intellegent things they're capable of. It's beyond brillant. Oh, and good call on The Big Lebowski.

33

[i]The problem with Strangelove is that is attempts to be satire yet hasn’t a clue about the people it mocks. For satire to attain the realm of “brilliance” there must be some correspondence between what you are mocking and the people being mocked. Strangelove is mocking a strawman of what 60s-era Hollywood thought the Cold War was about rather than what it really was. (By the way, almost everything by Kubrick is overrated.)[/i]

Strangelove did have some legitimate targets. Both Ripper and Turgidsen are based on Gen. Curtis LeMay, the overly hawkish General during the sixties. It helps to know that it wasn't a satire on the Cold War, but on humanity itself. That our leaders are so stupid that they'll destroy the entire world in the process, and that's just because they've done the most intellegent things they're capable of. It's beyond brillant. Oh, and good call on The Big Lebowski.

34

i see you included a couple of Coen movies. Raising Arizona is a good call. I would add Brothers Where Art Thou on a list of great movies also. Oh...and Fargo of course.

35

This list commits the almost unimaginably tasteless heresy of referring to Star Wars: A New Hope as a "sequel."

'nuff said.

36

The most overrated film of all time nonpareil is "Chinatown."

About every five years I think "My goodness, everyone keeps writing about what a masterpiece 'Chinatown' is. I must have missed something. Surely I'm older and more mature now than the last time I saw it. I'll rent it and finally understand what I was missing."

But the same thing pours out of my set each time: a turgid, talky, incomprehensible, plotless period piece about irrigation.

Critics can't stop slobbering all over themselves about this film even 30 years later. Entertainment Weekly ranks it as the fourth greatest film of all time. And I'm here to tell you that it stinks. On ice.

37

I agree The Searchers is an overrated film, though still pretty good. The truly underrated John Wayne film is Red River - check it out.

38

In the category of "Most overrated courtroom drama" I nominate "A Few Good Men." Except for that one line -- "You can't handle the truth!" -- the script is pure processed cheese-like product.

Most underrated sword-and-sorcery, "Excalibur."

39

Affleck's speech in Boiler Room was a bad imitation of Alec Baldwin's in Glengarry Glen Ross, which is a better movie than BR and Wall Street put together. And Boiler Room sucked compared to Wall Street. A lame attempt at remaking better movies.

40

Wrong about Batman's. Completely correct about 2001. Man did that ending stink.

41

2 Great Directors 'Worst' movies which I love:
Orson Welles 'The Trial' (Anthony Perkins, Jeanne Moreau, Elsa Martinelli, Romy Schneider)

Joseph Losey 'Modesty Blaise' (Vitti,Stamp)

42

JC

" Gimme Shelter shows that deep down the Stones are uninteresting dullards "

But they are freaking beautiful electrifying mofos on the outside, which is why they are the Rolling Stones and you're just a teeny tiny asterix in the history of internet blogging.

So far anyway ... ;)

43

Mumon:

You're so right about The Shadow. Maybe the only Alec Baldwin movie I've ever really liked, it was a perfect balance between not taking itself too seriously and not devolving into complete silliness.

Apart from which, Penelope Ann Miller is a Red Hot Hottie(tm), especially back in those days!

As a side note, you need to go over to leanleft.com, as I have "tagged" you to participate in more silly BS.

44

Joe:

The critics loved PTA yet bashed The Breakfast Club. But stop any Gen-Xer and ask them to quote a line from each movie and you’ll see which one has held up over time.

[Other car] You're going the wrong way!
[Steve Martin] How do they know where we're going?
[John candy makes bottle tipping motion] Thank you!

Apparently, I'm not your typical Gen-Xer. Then again, I thought The Breakfast Club was an awful, self-pitying piece of crap. And I'll never forgive it for failing to disclose the punchline to the naked lady/duck joke.

For "brat pack" movies, St. Elmo's Fire was far better, even if it doesn't always stand up to the test of time (the scene with Judd Nelson and his wife arguing over the album collection is wonderful unintentional comedy...).

Now, on to the agreements: Army of Darkness is way underrated, and The Searchers is horribly overrated (what a waste of Jeffrey Hunter).

I also agree that Passion of the Christ was horribly overrated, but what surprised me was why I felt that way. I found almost none of the anti-semitism that critics claimed marred the film (at least, not any anti-semitism that wasn't clearly in the gospels); instead, what disappointed my was how heavy-handed the acting, direction, and cinematography were, almost as if Gibson didn't have faith in the story to tell itself, or in the audience to "get it" without tremendous exposition.

45

I inexcusably forgot to mention, in discussing Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, that the rental car counter scene remains among the most quotable in cinematic history, even to this day.

46

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