1

Is this the best way to use your time, attacking people who want to do good. Aren't there a few more important things to talk about?

Your giving evangelicals a bad name, regardless of how "right" you may or may not be.

2

*yawn*

Wanting to do good, and actually doing something good are two different things.

On the other hand - that monkey's pretty scary-looking.

Joe talks about plenty of constructive subjects. Live8 wasn't very constructive - although it was hyped as such.

Funny, Joe!

3

Man some people have no sense of humor at all at all - and I don't mean you Joe.

I find your post quite chuckle-worthy - however I am disturbed by the initials LotR which may create an unintentional reference to the Lord of the Rings... (grin)

4

David, is this the best use of your time? Attacking people, who are poking fun at people, who wanted to "do good"? Is this the best use of my time? Querying people who are attacking people who are poking fun at people...

I don't know if it's the best use of my time - but at least I'm having fun!

5

David--Why the "scare quotes" around "right"? Is there something about being right (as opposed to wrong or left) that should scare us? How does poking fun at self-important musicians give evangelicals a bad name?

6

Live 8 is modern liberalism at its finest. Joe's description of it is maddeningly funny: it's so ridiculous but yet it's so accurate and true. Leave it to a rock star to be ridiculous and honest at the same time: "Something must be done, even if it doesn't work." This is the sad legacy of almost all of liberalism. As long as the intentions are good, it doesn't matter if it's effective, or even if it's actually harmful. The War on Poverty, aid to Africa (we've sent $600 billion dollars there over the last fourty years), untold billions to government schools--all a testament to good intentions actually doing more harm than good.

7

Maybe David's point is just that it's easy to take potshots at people who try to do something about a real problem (poverty in Africa). Maybe he's just offended that a religious person wouldn't want to say, "I salute your good intentions, Bob Geldorf."

David is overreacting to Joe's satire. Joe is not as biting/mocking as David seems to think. And even if Joe is being too satirical, he speaks for himself, he is not the head of any church.

But David does raise an interesting point: what is the proper evangelical response to African poverty?

RasorsKiss is right about Che Guerilla, it is very disturbing.

8

It seems a bit defeatist to say, only a few days after this event (which if nothing else, has created a shared experience for much of the world's population and raised awareness) that it will have no effect on anything. I did not watch or attend any of the concerts, but I know many who did, as well as some that marched in Scotland and they are passionate involved people who truly believe that it's going to take a large number of people saying "This must stop!" for anything to ever truly be done to help the most impoverished and oppressed people of the world.

Perhaps a concert of such large scale won't be as effective as they had hoped in gathering momentum among the masses, but at least this was a group of people doing SOMETHING. I think time will tell if it made any sort of difference. And if it didn't, then it's back to the drawing board to try something else. And if that doesn't work, perhaps something else again. This isn't a problem that will be solved completely by something such as LIVE8, but perhaps an event like this can be one stop along the way to greater international social justice.

9

I support Make Poverty History, but I did not support the Live 8 Concert.
Why?
1.I wanted to see the Eden Concert-the African rockers perform. Afterall, they entire discussion was about Africa's poverty.
2. I'm concerned that my white wristband didn't go to aiding impoverished people, but for the concert.
3. Concert performers sales skyrocketed after the event. Did proceeds from those sales go to this project?
4. I didn't see any trailers about poverty in America, especially Mississippi, Kentucky and other areas Feed the Hungry helps in this country.
5. There should have been a more definite gameplan.
6. Outside of U2--where were the Christian rockers? Why weren't we asked to give a concert?
What am I doing to fight poverty?

My Daisy troup will help the United Way here in Suwanee this year with food, clothing and Christmas toys. did any artists say what they were doing?

I thought your post was humurous, but trying to stick the point that the job to end poverty has been left to us.

10

David -- Is this the best way to use your time, attacking people who want to do good. Aren't there a few more important things to talk about?

No, it probably isn’t. But writing satire is often easier than writing another dull post on bioethics or theology.

I should clarify that I was all for the LIVE8 event until I realized that none of the money being generated (and yes, there was some money generated) was going toward actually relieving poverty in Africa.

Your giving evangelicals a bad name, regardless of how "right" you may or may not be.

I won’t argue with that. But I was under the impression that evangelicals already had a bad name so I’m not sure how much harm I can be doing.

Matthew -- Maybe David's point is just that it's easy to take potshots at people who try to do something about a real problem (poverty in Africa).

But what exactly did the concert do. I’m all for fixing the problems in Africa. But it is the height of pretension for rich Westerners to hold a series of large concerts and then pretend that they are actually doing something that is helping Africans.

Maybe he's just offended that a religious person wouldn't want to say, "I salute your good intentions, Bob Geldorf."

Oh, I salute Geldof’s good intentions (as misguided as they may be). Mostly I’m making fun of Chris Martin and the silly idea that a concert is the greatest thing that ever been organized in the history of the world (probably).

And even if Joe is being too satirical, he speaks for himself, he is not the head of any church.

True, but I should be the head of the church. If we evangelicals every decide to elect a pope I think I should be in the running for the job.

But David does raise an interesting point: what is the proper evangelical response to African poverty?

Um, actually doing something about poverty might be a good start. Gideon Strauss has begun an outline of ways to answer that question. But you have a point and I think that is a question I should at least take a shot at answering.

RasorsKiss is right about Che Guerilla, it is very disturbing.

Revolutionaries generally are.

11

Wow! We're pretty much on a similar page here.

Eric Alterman had a great piece the other day (hard to find on MSNBC site) that these folks who are doing these concerts should give some of the money to the hungry; Pink Floyd evidently has committed themselves to doing so.

12

Funny post.

In addition to dittoing Dee's comment, I'll add mine.

Wonder if anyone is going to track the actual impact of this heightened awareness.

A recent commentary on the concert from a poor African's point of view said something to the effect of, "That's great the you're aware that I'm hungry, but could you give me some bread?" (Don't remember the source & it was much funnier when they did it.)

13

Awesome!

14

Well, I for one have linked to this worthy cause at Two or Three.

One thing I think needs to be added is the devestation that foreign aid has caused in Africa. Much like welfare in the US, the aid actually hinders the economic progress in Africa.

When asked about the aid coming to Africa, James Shikwati, a Kenyan economists, said, "...for God's sake, please just stop."

Shikwati explains how the aid in the form of money, food and clothing actually hinders the African economy and creates an ever riper atmosphere for corruption and dependence by the African people on corrupt governments.

15

So instead of, or maybe in addition to, a Che Guerilla shirt, you should make up a "Pope Joe" or "Joe for Pope" shirt. You can do a pic of yourself wearing a big papal hat.

16

P.S. I'm a little tossed up about how best to support the revolution. On the CafePress site, do you recommend I purchase the classic thong or the organic cotton tee? I really want to do something!

17

David -- You can do a pic of yourself wearing a big papal hat.

Come to think of it, I think I have one of those photos lying around here somewhere...

do you recommend I purchase the classic thong or the organic cotton tee?

I recommend that you get the thong, take a picture of yourself wearing it, and then post it on your blog. Then we can raise funds for poverty relief by having people pay you to take the photo off your site. ; )

18

I think I'll pre-pay to keep the photo from ever appearing on the internet...

19

Great post Joe!

I'm thinking of raising my awareness of Canadian folk music. I truly know nothing about it.

20

Aaron, appreciate the contribution of something solid about the issue.

That's not to say the levity is bad, just different.

21

OK, I'll definitely keep the thong thing in mind. I'll need to check with the leaders of my church and the members of my presbytery to see if they have any objections before I post the pic.
Or, per Ogre, I'll gladly accept lots of large donations to keep the pic off the internet.

22

"True, but I should be the head of the church. If we evangelicals every decide to elect a pope I think I should be in the running for the job."

Now wait just a darned minute, Carter! You seem to have forgotten that I beat you to the punch a number of months ago. (cf. http://blog.revmike.us/archives/000715.html) Shall I interpret this discussion to suggest you're contemplating a counter-Reformation of your own? If so, do I need to refill the ink in my anathema pen?

23

I thought it said "Linkers of the Evolution". With the monkey and all are you finally giving up the ghost on ID? Roddy McDowall would have approved. Especially his Caesar character.

24

---But David does raise an interesting point: what is the proper evangelical response to African poverty?---

Great question! Money alone, taxed or not, will not help. They need a different system, one that is secure and free from ruffians, bribes, domination and behavior that kills and orphans (did they mention these at Live8?). I think God wants to break our hearts for Africa so we become living sacrifices, not do a little editing of the tax forms and send a check.

25

Joe,

But what exactly did the concert do?

I don't know much about the concerts, but I would speculate that they made a lot of people think about Africa who ordinarily wouldn't pay much attention to Africa. And maybe some of those people, after the drugs and alcohol wore off, actually asked themselves what they could really do to help Africans.

And it did lead to a discussion here, with at least a couple of excellent links from yourself and Aaron.

The concerts did more than I have done recently to help Africa. But I believe President Bush has done and will continue to do astronomically more for Africans than any music promoters could hope to achieve.

If we evangelicals ever decide to elect a pope I think I should be in the running for the job.

Every person is pope of his own personal church.

Revolutionaries generally are [very disturbing].

Are you suggesting that George Washington bears a resemblance to Che Guerilla?

26

Are you suggesting that George Washington bears a resemblance to Che Guerrilla?

Well since the Che Guerrilla bears more resemblance to a monkey, rather than an actual Gorilla, I'm not sure who should be offended.

27

Joe,

I'm sorry to interject here, but is the Forum down or is there just something funky with my browser?

28

"The poor you have with you always." Jesus

A large part of the reason is because too many folks are governed by humanist philosophies and man-made religions whose criteria are aimed at mediocrity and worse. Bulls-eye!

Many are poor because of their own choices - especially in the Western nations where we are free to choose from more alternatives. Especially the ones that satisfy our glands and feelings... Got grass?

Money will solve? Not for more than a week...

29

Count me in! I linked it to my blog, Bonfire of the Vanities.

30

Gosh, Mumon on the same page with Joe Carter! And they said Live8 wouldn't really accomplish anything.

31

"Is this the best way to use your time, attacking people who want to do good. Aren't there a few more important things to talk about?"

Yes.....yes it is...and if you consider it an attack then take your meds.

"he is not the head of any church"

But I am, and I agree with him. II am the head of The Frst Church of Merriam Webster. Other curches may tell you the meaning and path to Salvation, but I can SHOW you the way to the meaning of Salvation. One simply must know which page Salvation is on.

"but I would speculate that they made a lot of people think about Africa who ordinarily wouldn't pay much attention to Africa."

I pay very little attention to Africa, since it is full of corrupt governments that steal the aid to keep power....we should cut off all aid for a year and see what happens.

Great post.

32

Dvid Wayne:
"I'll need to check with the leaders of my church and the members of my presbytery to see if they have any objections before I post the pic."

Well that does it. I'm going to hold a concert to raise awareness about your inappropriate pic.

33

Trackback encountered problems with your server. Linked this post in Scene and Herd: 8-JUL-05.

34

trackbacks don't work? God I love the pic on here.

35

Is there anyone on the face of the earth who is not "aware" of the fact that Africans are starving and have been starving for as long as any of us have been in a state of "awareness?" The problem is not that we haven't given enough. A case can be made that our giving has made the problems worse. I don't know the answer, but clearly giving more money to Africa (whether forgiving debt or sprinkling it around like manna)has not solved the problem.

36

Ok we're with you, Joe. There's a lot of consciousness to be raised.