1

Apology accepted, Captain Needa.

I hereby apologize to mumon for considering him "just an average Joe". He's obviously part of the intelligentsia - contact with the unwashed masses of average joes might result in a nasty case of the hives. Sorry, dude. If I had known, I would have stepped off the sidewalk for you to pass in peace, and undefiled.

I feel bad about that "average joe" thing too, Joe, incidentally. I didn't see what fallout could result. I mean, I referred to him (obliquely) by your given name! Sorry man.

Do you forgive me?

2

I apologize to the IT guys for spewing coffee on my keyboard and monitor while reading this post.

3

Much as I appreciate the attempt at levity, I do think that there's still a lot of nasty things being said on the subject of Durbin, and by Rove.

But, RazorsKiss, um, the intelligentsia are just "average Joes," who like nothing more than to shoot pool, go fishing, etc., Hank Williams, Patsy Cline, etc. (OK, I don't know any Ph.D.s, Nobel laurates, Institute Fellows or what not who adore NASCAR, but that's the exception that proves the rule).

We may be smart, but that's not the same thing necessarily as being out of touch with the masses...

But in the spirit of this whole thing, I apologize for attempting to hold up self-avowed Christians to er, um, words that Jesus said.

4

I actually agree with mumon. In particular, I think that the right really abuses "treason, traitor and sedition" the way that the left abuses "racist, sexist and homophobe."

5

mumon--You mean like, "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" or "My house will be called a house of prayer but you are making it a den of robbers" as he was opening a king-size can of whup-ass on the temple moneychangers.

6

Rob Smith:

While the monechangers line applies in spades to folks like D. James Kennedy, I was thinking more in line of "anybody harms the kids and they're going into the water with a millstone around their neck."

That kind of thing. Funny how the corporal punishment folks don't take stuff like that seriously.

7

mumon, mumon, mumon... So much to say, so little time. First, I love to see those who revile The Biblical message, use it to their 'supposed' advantage (if you actually knew the context of what you write about you'd make more sense).

Second, the "intelligentsia" are those self-professed, self-promoting "geniuses" who foist their opinions on us and use their supposed status to make us bow to their will. (You need look no further than election 2004 and John Kerry to see what I mean... but if you insist, Woody Allen, Andy Warhol, Barbara Streisand to name a few)

Third, Trent Lott's "need" to apologize was politics... Durbin's need to apologize is real (he should be censured) and Karl Rove need apologize for nothing. Mr. Rove can back up what he said with video tape and other recording of the Liberal's statements he was referring to... unlike Durbin and those other Sens. and Reps. who are attacking our defenders while defending our attackers.

8

mumon--I don't think Jesus meant that statement to apply to parents swatting their kid on the bottom to discourage bad or dangerous behavior. I sure hope Jesus isn't fitting me for a millstone for slapping my little girl's hand as she attempted to play with the stove for the 4th time. As for the moneychangers, I usually associate that statement with the Jimmy Swaggart/Oral Roberts types. Don't follow D.J. Kennedy enough to comment.

9

Mumon,

Do you really believe that swatting a child on its butt is harm? There is a HUGE separation between corporal punishment and abuse. My wife's theory (which we follow) is that the shock (not pain or harm) of corporal punishment is necessary on the very young to enforce on them lessons in areas where they could harm themselves. Examples: do not run away in stores, do not put your hand on the stove, do not run into the street, etc. I am not sure we have had to use corporal punishment since my 12 year old was out of diapers (maybe once).

First time my daughter ran to me screaming "Daddddddy" in joy when I came home I knew I would hang a millstone around the neck of anyone who HARMED her (how do you harm someone for whom you stand in as God). Have I spanked her? yes. Same thing - get real.

It is always a problem when people who do not believe in the Bible (and do not read it cover to cover with the intent to have the Holy Spirit help them understand it and live by it) start pulling passages out of context for their own use.

I try strenuously not to quote scripture to non-believers - because not accepting the authority behind the scripture (and the ability of that authority to lead understanding) means the scripture is meaningless to them. Why should you quote it to me without the authority behind it leading you to understand what it means?

10

Russell:

First, the intelligentsia are literally the "intellectual elite of a society." All the stuff you added was extra. Intellectuals are just intellectuals. There's no reason to hate us than there is for us to hate uneducated people.

Secondly, with all due respect, it's not up to you to define to me what the "biblical message" is or how I should read it. Or, whether or not I "revile" it. I don't- I read it with a great deal of sadness, but not revulsion.

Finally, how come Trent Lott can't bring himself to endorse an apology for the Senate's inaction on lynching?

Obviously, Klansmen and fellow-travelers are part of his constituency.

JCHFleetguy

I know it's a controversial topic, but it's more effot to discipline one's self than it is to spank a kid.

It's possible to discipline one's self as well as one's kid without spanking.

11

Mumon,

Who said we punished without disciplining ourselves? We never spanked out of anger, revenge, frustration. We spanked when a lesson, taught before, needed to be firmly and seriously implanted for the safety of the child.

There may be style differences - but no "controversy"

12

So... anyone who's been educated is the intelligentsia?

Cool.

So, like... half of the country is, half isn't?

Why bother calling them the intelligentsia then?

13

mumon said: "First, the intelligentsia are literally the "intellectual elite of a society." All the stuff you added was extra. Intellectuals are just intellectuals. There's no reason to hate us than there is for us to hate uneducated people."

And...

"I know it's a controversial topic, but it's more effot to discipline one's self than it is to spank a kid.

It's possible to discipline one's self as well as one's kid without spanking."
--------------------------------
Thank You mumon for making my point. In the first quote you said, "..no reason to hate US..." so you are one of the self-proclaimed intellectuals I spoke of. You make my point when you show your ignorance of the proper grammatical use of the English language. You should have said, "Theres's no MORE reason FOR THE UNEDUCATED to hate us, than there is for us to hate uneducated people."

Effort is spelled with an "R."

Oh, and I didn't define for you what the biblical message is, I just pointed out that you obviously are unaware of what it is.

For the record... I hold a B.A. (1988) from Rice University and I would be tempted to punch someone in the mouth (tempted I said) if they ever called me an intellectual.

14

Something I learned from growing up with a Concerned and Compassionate (TM) sociopath:

Forcing the other guy to "apologize" is the ultimate power trip. Once he apologizes for anything -- definition ANYTHING -- he has volunteered to be blamed for anything and everything -- definition EVERYTHING.

After all, if your inferior apologizes then it is all HIS FAULT! Isn't it?
HE HAS SINNED! SINNED! SINNED!

And since you never apologize for anything (after all, you can do no wrong), you in your Total Righteousness (TM) can praise yourself for accepting his apology (and then demand more guilt and apology from him -- and praises to yourself -- without end).

Or damn him to Hell anyway; after all, you're playing God, you might go all the way with that oh-so-Delicious Right of Righteous Judgement.

15

Absolutely brilliant and incredibly funny!

Being from Canada, I especially appreciate your apology for preventing us from turning into a 3rd world country....

Hilarious! Thanks, brother.

16

Russell:

Sue me; I've got a Ph.D. and it's no crime being an intellectual- except of course, if you're anti-intellectual, such as some folks in Germany were in the 1930s. Maybe you've heard of them. They had a thing against intellectuals- especially Jewish ones, but they hated intellectuals in general.

17

Or, to put it another way: intellectuals are a class of people.

Why are you trying to engage in class warfare?

18

"I apologize to my wife for making her believe that my earnings potential would increase after we were married. I also apologize for any remarks that have offended her, especially those made during the recent “Jumper Cable Incident.”

Don't let my imagination run wild.

19

Just a technical note: Your comments counter does not appear to change from zero no matter how many comments made. This is under IE.

20

Joe -- you get the award for blogger with the most, um, interesting comments and commenters. I sometimes marvel at where your posts start and where the comments end up - its a site to behold.

21

Tis true, David, tis true.

The road less traveled, I think, is Joe's comments section.

I can't decide whether it's because the road really *shouldn't* be traveled, or because traveling it gives you heartburn.

I'll have a ruling on it sometime soon, here. It will likely involve awarding his comments section to a megacorp, at the expense of Joe's property rights - and millions for me.

I apologize for that too, Joe. Sorry man.

22

Don't worry about ever apologizing to me for anything. I'm not sure I'd be able to tell the difference between one of your sarcastic apologies and a real one. ;-)

I'm clearly not as intelligent as you. But if you would just call me "half-bright" instead of "stupid" no offense will be taken. :-)

I apologize for calling myself a Christian. After reading "Christian" blogs for two years, I realize I must not be one, so I guess I'll have to just refer to myself as a disciple of Christ, a "picker-upper of the cross" or some other label so that I won't be confused with those who now say the "first will be first and the last won't make it at all." I apologize for not understanding that Wal-mart represents the ushering in of the Kingdom and that Jesus will redeem all humanity as Wal-mart has brought the living water at which all must drink. I apologize for believing that women can be pastors. They are clearly not called by God to do anything prophetic or provide any significant leadership roles except to run the nursery or take the pastor's robe to the dry cleaners. I also apologize for my reluctance to accept the newly discovered Biblical text that proves that Jesus said, "Blessed only are the poor in spirit; the other poor are lazy bums trying to steal from the rich." The other translations came from corrupt scribes. I also apologize for not noticing God's new revelation of the beatitude, "blessed is the USA because we're #1, the French suck, and the British inhabit a small, foggy island." I also apologize for not realizing that Jesus, in a footnote, said he wanted to wash the disciple's feet only so long as he wasn't Canadian or Mexican because Canadian feet stink and Mexican feet are always wet. I apologize for supporting that "dishonest" UCC ad, even though 59% of Protestant evangelical pastors said they wouldn't knowlingly accept a homosexual as a member of their church (but first, just how good an organist is he or she?). Finally, I apologize for being upset by torture at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo. Those held there are simply proof that they aren't the elect that Jesus died for and since they are headed to hell anyway, we might as well get a jump start on their eternal suffering and damnation.

If I haven't learned all the other things I should have from the "God blogs" I apologize. I'm still reading. And then there's the Biola convention coming up.

23

Mumon:

You said,"...except of course, if you're anti-intellectual, such as some folks in Germany were in the 1930s. Maybe you've heard of them. They had a thing against intellectuals- especially Jewish ones, but they hated intellectuals in general."

Thanks for providing a realtime example of Godwin's Law.

This discussion is now closed. You lose.

24

Thank You mumon for making my point. In the first quote you said, "..no reason to hate US..." so you are one of the self-proclaimed intellectuals I spoke of. You make my point when you show your ignorance of the proper grammatical use of the English language. You should have said, "Theres's no MORE reason FOR THE UNEDUCATED to hate us, than there is for us to hate uneducated people."

Effort is spelled with an "R."

Oh, and I didn't define for you what the biblical message is, I just pointed out that you obviously are unaware of what it is.

For the record... I hold a B.A. (1988) from Rice University and I would be tempted to punch someone in the mouth (tempted I said) if they ever called me an intellectual.

You remind me of something Robert H. Heinlein wrote:

Some people insist that "mediocre" is better than "best". They delight in clipping wings because they themselves can't fly. They despise brains because they have none. Pfah!

25

I'm impressed at how many comments were made before the obligatory "you don't like intellectuals so you must be a Nazi".

26

Hey Scott! Thanks for the Godwin's law link - it gave me a chuckle. But didn't you just make Quirk's Exception? (from the same link.. I don't know enough html to make that purty linkage myself!)

27

I don't hate you for thinking you are better than veryone else... I pity you.

Your PhD means you know a lot about a particular subject... not about everything. Another PhD in another field will know more about that than you do. Someone with an 8th grade education can teach you much about how to frame or wire your house...or about life.

Intellectuals are "a class of people?" Most of the quote/unquote intellectuals today have NO class.

As to your Nazi reference... The Nazis kept the people who were intelligent... THEY were useful. The intellectual had no REAL value so they were the first to be exterminated to keep them from using their mouth/pen to stir up the people against them. Einstein was an intellectual... but he couldn't do anything with the theories he had, but those theories did stir others into creating the bombs that killed many thousands of people - Intelligent people made the equipment that made the bombs possible.

28

A perfect example of the modern meaning of "Intellectual" is Woody Allen, wouldn't you agree? The following quote is representative of the reason many of us have problems with "Intellectuals" and the "Intelliegentsia."

"Woody Allen says he, as a filmmaker, is not interested in 9/11.

'It's too small, history overwhelms it," Allen reportedly tells DER SPIEGEL.

"The history of the world is like: He kills me, I kill him, only with different cosmetics and different castings. So in 2001, some fanatics killed some Americans, and now some Americans are killing some Iraqis."

Tuesday's NY POST quotes the master director: "And in my childhood, some Nazis killed Jews. And now, some Jewish people and some Palestinians are killing each other. Political questions, if you go back thousands of years, are ephemeral, not important. History is the same thing over and over again.""