1

i am glad that you say tony is 'a voice worth listening to.'

but, where do you get that he is a 'neo-marxist' instead of following the bible's teachings? i don't see that anywhere in the article or elsewhere.

2

About the article:

How about this quote:
"Now, if you were going to ask me, "Are only Christians going to get to
heaven?" I can't answer that question, because I can only speak from the
Christian perspective", yadda yadda.

And this one:
"And I would have to say what about all the people in the Old Testament
days? They didn't have a chance to accept Jesus."

Huh? How did this guy get to be a baptist minister?

Also in the article, TC begins by lamenting the fact that evangelicals in
his view don't care about the poor and underpriveleged. Apparently, if
people would only support the No Child Left Behind program and spurn the
NRA, then the world would be a better place. He later says of other groups:

"As for mainline churches declining, my own particular analysis is that
they're declining because they have been so concerned about social justice
issues that they forgot to put a major emphasis on bringing people into a
close, personal, transforming relationship with God."

So what is the appropriate level of political involvement? Note that he is
way more concerned about evangelical congregations who, although leading
people to Christ, are not aligning with the 'correct' social agenda than he
is about the mainline churches who may not be pointing people to God (and
are thus dying), but are at least voting for Democrats. Perhaps this stems
from his view that Christ may not be the only way.

Tony may be an excellent preacher and a wonderful witness to Christ, but I
have to be skeptical of a man who thinks that environmentalism should be a
significant part of Christian life. At first glance it seems that TC may
have stumbled into some of the problems he inconsistently preaches against.
I think he's in danger of elevating politics and social causes above the
gospel.

3

That's the biggest problem with evangelicalism: the total lack of any authority outside of one's personal interpretation of the Scriptures which would allow a person to identify error. Campolo is a psuedo-Christian heretic. Calling him an evangelical guarantees that I will never put that label on myself.

4

'but I
have to be skeptical of a man who thinks that environmentalism should be a
significant part of Christian life'

why? humans were given this world by god! hint: re-read genesis.

'his view don't care about the poor and underpriveleged. Apparently, if
people would only support the No Child Left Behind program'

NCLB is a bush program. it does nothing for the poor and underprivledged. it is poor PR at best.

'are not aligning with the 'correct' social agenda'

it is aobut examining christ's social agenda and seeing if it fits with the church's agenda.

i still haven't heard why he is a marxist. is it becuase clinton asked him for sprititual guidance?

5

A Christian should be a good steward of God's creation. Pretty much the whole world agrees that taking care of our environment is important, and it hardly sets a Christian apart to be environmentally friendly. Are we really going to out-zeal the radical environmentalists? A Christian lifestyle is built around commitment to Christ and the building of an eternal kingdom that is not of this world. Apparently environmental activism is high on TC's list of "Christian stuff". His list differs slightly from mine, and that's ok. I just think he's losing focus a little.

6

You're right on NCLB. It does nothing.

TC should be preaching scripture, not politics.

7

Christ's 'agenda', was not social, but spiritual. If the purpose of his ministry was social would he have said the following?

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household."
Matt 10:34-36

8

hoots,

i must have misread all that feeding the poor and healing the sick stuff in the new testament. my bad.

9

don't take one peice of scripture out of context and try and convince me that christ did not have a social agenda. that simply isn't true.

so, are you saying that the ministries that do feed the poor and heal the sick are only there to get them saved? if not, they can go to hell, so to speak?

10

My beef isn't with you, it's with TC for putting the social instruction of Christ before his far more prominent spiritual instruction. I'm not saying Jesus didn't talk about treatment of those less fortunate. I'm only saying that social causes were not the focus of his ministry. Christians who make it the focus of theirs need to tread carefully.

11

I had no idea Mr. Campolo was a Democrat. More power to him...

In my mind, Mr. Campolo is most famous for uttering this quote: "I have three things I would like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a s***. What's worse than that, third, you're more upset with the fact that I said s*** than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night."

12

Tommy: but, where do you get that he is a 'neo-marxist' instead of following the bible's teachings? i don't see that anywhere in the article or elsewhere.

First of all, let me say that I while he might not like that title I doubt Campolo has the same low regard for the word “Marxist” as many of the rest of us do. Many academics who entered the Ivory Tower in the ’60s were enamored with Marxism. Some still are.

I think it can be clearly seen in Campolo’s books when he discusses economic concerns. He is stridently anti-capitalist and has also sided with the liberation theologians, Herbert Marcuse, and even gave “spiritual advice” to Fidel Castro.

James: Calling him an evangelical guarantees that I will never put that label on myself.

Do you also reject the label “Christian” for the same reason?

13

'He is stridently anti-capitalist'

does that automatically make one a marxist? seems like there are quite a few degrees of economic though between marxist and capitalist.

14

'I'm only saying that social causes were not the focus of his ministry.'

after announcing himself as the messiah, and writing aobut how people should live and love each other, i think healing the sick and helping the poor was the focus of his ministry.

i have no beef with you either, but i don't understand people not understanding christians like TC. seems like you are either lock-step with bush or you are out these days. good thing i left the church during the first bush.

15

I just heard Campolo preach this past Sunday. There's no question he's a rousing, engaging, incredibly dynamic speaker. Perhaps in response to criticism, he wholeheartedly (and movingly) preached Jesus as risen Savior and Lord. He also named "democratic capitalism" as the cause of our relentless cultural pursuit of "stuff," done to the neglect of our psycho-emotional-spiritual well-being. It is unfortunate that our culture encourages aquisition of too much "stuff" but I'm not convinced it's the fault of democracy or capitalism. I understand his point, though.

Campolo emphasized relationship with God through Jesus and with each other and with those in poverty everywhere. Hard to argue with that. He obviously puts his money where his mouth is. He isn't afraid to reach out to the good, bad, or ugly in ministry. He's "sold out," and that's very inspiring.

Too bad he had to slip in a plug against homophobia (whatever that is) during his closing remarks, after he had the congregation eating out of the palm of his hand...

16

Does being critical of Tony Campolo automatically make one lock-step with Bush? seems like there are quite a few degrees of political and religious thought between those two.

As TC points out, there are plenty of Christians on both sides of the political spectrum.

Perhaps Tony leans toward your view of the gospels. If so, his efforts are more understandable.

Jesus says:
"... he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

I interpret that primarily in a spiritual manner.

17

Tommy Cat,

Come back to the church. We need you and your voice to stand up to these Pharisees (that is you Joe). Jesus and the disciples would not allow themselves to be put down by them and neither should you.

18

I tend to think Campolo's influence will dissipate in a few years. His influence is based entirely on his speaking abilities, not on anything he actually says (or writes).

19

I like TC, even though I'm a lot more conservative than he is. In some ways, he's a social prophet, functioning like a conscience to us--much farther "out there" than we want to be, but challenging us to consider his ideas. I think of his main ideas as: (1) Jesus is neither Dem or Rep, (2) take care of the poor, and (3) don't hate the homosexual while you're condemning sin.

Obviously, though, Jesus didn't come here only to help the poor and heal sick people. Think of it, during his years on earth he only healed a small percentage of those who were sick on the earth. Sometimes he didn't even heal anyone in a town if they were opposed to him or lacked faith. He wasn't only the Greatest Social Worker; the miracles were signs of his divinity, and his main work came at the end of his life. I believe he left it to us to continue what he started--Luke 4:18-19, quoted above by Hoots says it all.

20

after announcing himself as the messiah, and writing aobut how people should live and love each other, i think healing the sick and helping the poor was the focus of his ministry.

Let's take a look at the focus of his ministry...

John 6:53-59

Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever." He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

John 4:7-14

When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?" (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.) The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.) Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water." "Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?" Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

John 6:51

I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."

Matthew 12:38-45

Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, "Teacher, we want to see a miraculous sign from you." He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here. The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon's wisdom, and now one greater than Solomon is here.
"When an evilspirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked generation."

Matthew 9:1-8

Jesus stepped into a boat, crossed over and came to his own town. Some men brought to him a paralytic, lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, son; your sins are forgiven." At this, some of the teachers of the law said to themselves, "This fellow is blaspheming!" Knowing their thoughts, Jesus said, "Why do you entertain evil thoughts in your hearts? Which is easier: to say, 'Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, 'Get up and walk'? But so that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins...." Then he said to the paralytic, "Get up, take your mat and go home." And the man got up and went home. When the crowd saw this, they were filled with awe; and they praised God, who had given such authority to men.

John 3:16-18

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

John 14:11

Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 15:24

If I had not done among them what no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen these miracles, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.

Acts 2:22

Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.

Two things are made prominent: First, the miracles were signs to get peoples' attention. Second, the spiritual condition of human kind supercedes the physcial.

The point that Joe made is not that we shouldn't be helping the poor and carrying the burden of the down-trodden, but that the segment of the Church Tony Campolo represents puts a greater practical emphasis on social justice than the Good News, which is what "neo-Marxist" implies.

Also, I agree with Joe that on our side of the spectrum, we do down-play the need for Christian charity; to not just give monetarily, but to put ourselves into the very gutter with the sick and poor, to share in their suffering, and then lift them out with our own two hands. But without the Good News, all of it is a waste.

21

The html is messed up again and the stpuid cache on my browser left the "Remember personal info?" checked as No. @#&^%$#%*&^%#@#& ...Ok, I'm better now.

22

Christ was neither a physician or a farmer. Both the feeding of the multitudes and healing the sick were miracles, delivered by the agency of God, as Godis the agent of the natural healing process and the natural growth and increase of wheat and fish.
I fear that Campolo's ministry will lead people to believe that the political state is the origin of sustenance and health, or that in some other fashion people (who are fallen) can provide these things for themselves.

23

By the time I wrote and posted my previous comment August had posted his comments. He says what I intended to say but much more convincingly, elegantly, and backed up with gospel. He is "il miglior fabbro".

24

Tony Campolo. *sigh*

I owe him a lot. I'll say that. He helped me a lot when I was a younger man doing youth ministry.

Early Career: Good.
Early Books: good.
A Reasonable Faith: Very good, despite the Heresy Trial.
This book where he critiqued Christianity from the standpoint of other systems. (I forget the name) Really good.
More Recent Campolo: Clown.
Spiritual Avisor to Clinton: Can anyone come up with a way to describe this that doesn't leave me giggling.
Joking with Clinton at Ron Brown's Funeral: Ugh. UGGGGHH.
TV Show with Steve Brown: Good idea. Steve ate his lunch.
On Haiti, Hunger and that stuff: Good
On borrowing material from other preachers: Can't control himself.
On trying to appear more conservative than his wife: Good try. Didn't work.
As a significant evangelical: Only to a coying media. Today, he's about as far out in left field as you can get.
Why doesn't he say it: The government will solve these problems if we just let it.
Best story: The birthday party for the hookers.
Best line: You're more upset that I said "shXX" than you are that 10,000 kids are starving.
Overdone: It's Friday, but *BLAM!!!*
Future role: But Tony on liberal radio. THAT would be interesting.
Strengths: Smart. Brave. Passionate.
Weakness: Bad with the Bible. (Just shreds it on most issues.) Naieve. Likes the camera. Has taken the shtick a bit too far.
I'd love to: Handcuff him to Al Mohler for a year and see if there's hope.

25

I seem to remember a time when the term "Evangelist" meant "Christian Social Activist".

Now it apparently is supposed to mean "Rigid Dogmatic Guardian of the Faith and Punisher of the Wicked". -Not to mention "The Terminator of Humor".

26

Spiritual Avisor to Clinton: Can anyone come up with a way to describe this that doesn't leave me giggling.

"It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick." Matthew 9:12

I actually had the chance to talk to Campolo about this for a few minutes several years ago, and his response was essentially: how can a Christian say no when a person who has been caught in sin as publicly as Clinton had calls and asks for spiritual guidance. Campolo was very firm in saying he believed Clinton was sincere. I share your apparent skepticism of Clinton's motives, iMonk, and there doesn't seem to be much evidence of the former President's spiritual growth on display in his memoir.

"It's Friday now ... but Sunday's comin'" may be overdone (I haven't really heard Campolo in several years), but I still remember the chills I got the first time I heard it. Given his skills as a speaker, it's unfortunate that he's often not Biblical in his approach.

27

The sick need a physician with some medicine, not someone who dumped all his medicine and took up with snake oil.

Tony did a lot of good with Friday, but.... But if you listen to that story, it's about another guy's sermon. If I got famous running around America quoting another guy's sermon, it would bother me. Until the royalty check arrived. Then I would say the Lord works in mysterious ways. :-)

28

Tony Campolo is an anathamatized heretic, which came about through a long, sensitive, and decently and in order process.

29

BTW, that excommunication had nothing to do with his social agenda, which I would disagree with on prudential grounds, but not very often in that something needs to be done.

It was his insistance, and continuance in Christological heresy (that the poor -are- the incarnation of the Second Person of the Holy Trinity), as well as numerous serious exegetical flaws and "unintentional" heretical statements that he pretended to recant, but then continued on just the same.

30

It is rather odd that a heresy trial would come under the auspices of the Christian Legal Society and not an ecclesiastical body. Whether or not Campolo was guilty of heresy, shouldn't a recognized church body with disciplinary jurisdiction over the accused be looking into this?

31

David,

Whether or not Campolo was guilty of heresy, shouldn't a recognized church body with disciplinary jurisdiction over the accused be looking into this?

That's probably one of the weakness of being Protestant. What may smell like heresy to one denomination might not qualify in another.

I think in this situation, though, a third party had to step in to arbitrate since no ecclesiastical body had authority over both Campolo and the para-church group that made the claim against him.

32

When Clinton and Campolo were caught on camera joking at Ron Browns' funeral, Clinton quickly turned on the tears. When questioned about this incident Campolo "covered" for his friend by saying "The Presidents tears were the result of our heart to heart conversation, I had just informed him of my opposition to partial birth abortion."...a bill Clinton had recently vetoed......sure, I believe it.

33

"methodologically naïve and verbally incautious."

This sums up Campolo to a tee. I saw him in Melbourne, Australia, a few months back and the above rings true.

BUT

You've got to wonder, given how predictably his audience reacts even when faced with gotcha's like this one mentioned earlier:

"I have three things I would like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don't give a s***. What's worse than that, third, you're more upset with the fact that I said s*** than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night."

That is so true about the church it makes you laugh and then cry. And TC is a reaction against the church that lives like that. He'll say whatever he has to to make people uncomfortable and push them towards reading the WHOLE bible - including the sermon on the mount, including the implications for our behaviour of everything Jesus did.

It's obvious in TC's speaking that if he had to say that Jesus asks us to forgive terrorist suicide bombers (yes, I mean those ones), he'd do it. If he had to make the point that if we don't forgive them God won't forgive us (Matt 6:15) he'd do that too.

34

"I have three things I would like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition."

I guess that makes Campolo a liar as well. I don't think almost 11,000,000 kids per year are dying of starvation and disese related to starvation. And if we take him literally, you'd have to triple that number if you figure a good 8 hours of sleep per night.

35

For God's sake, "Difster,"

the number is actually too low. It's close to 50,000 people (more than half of them children) who are dying from the combination of preventable disease and malnutrition, almost all in the third world that the US (and Europe before them) have immiserated. Please email me anyone if you want to debate or learn more about this... the cost of feeding the 1 billion people currently living hungry, giving clean water to the more than 1 billion without it... the US share would be less than 1% of annual US military expenditures.