1

Joe,

not to nitpick your nitpicking, but English isn't Mr. Buckley's first, or even second, language...

I still wish I could mangle a sentence with as much style as he does.

2

Humble,

not to nitpick your nitpicking, but English isn't Mr. Buckley's first, or even
second, language...

While I realize that Spanish (learned from his Hispanic housekeepers) was his first language, I do believe English was his second. I mean, really, he was raised in Connecticut. If we expect young immigrants to learn English we should expect the same from our native born sons.

I still wish I could mangle a sentence with as much style as he does.

As a long time admirer of Buckley’s, let me point out two problems with letting him off the hook too easily. The first is that we shouldn’t excuse “Ivy League laziness.” Just because you went to expensive prep schools and Yale doesn’t mean you are excused from slaving over grammar just like the rest of us (that goes for you too, Mr. President).

The second is that no one is too good to have an editor. I don’t care if you have been writing since the days of stone tablets, you need someone to look over your work. Just because you know more abou the the language than some young copyeditor doesn't excuse you from having your work proofed. WFB has plenty of people who could straighten out those crooked sentences. He should have used them.

3

Joe, do you read "Notes & Asides" in the print edition?

4

Joe,

I heard him say in an interview that either Russian or German was his first language, since his father was always stationed overseas. My memory is sometimes faulty, so I could be thinking of someone else, but WFB, Sr, WAS the CIA station chief who was killed in Lebanon while Reagan was in office. If I remember the interview correctly, WFB, Jr, didn't study English until he was in his early teens.

I'm not saying that WFB shouldn't have an editor, or that he should know better than to mangle those sentences the way he did. I'm just saying he does it with FAR more style than I do, and I'm jealous because of it. If I could make my non-mangled sentences seem as stylish as his mangled sentences, I would be not-half-bad writer. As it is, I'm just a hack.

5

Josh,

Joe, do you read "Notes & Asides" in the print edition?

Long ago I was an occasional reader of that section, though I haven't read it in years. I recall that it used to have some amusing one liners but I followed it about as closely as I did the letters to the editor. Am I missing out?

6

"Notes & Asides" is essentially Buckley taking readers, like you, to task for attempting to correct him on his grammar. He has a mastery of proper English grammar so far beyond most everyone else that I've heard numerous doctoral candidates in English remark on it. His grammar is not well suited for the average reader, like you and I, but it is almost always technically correct.

7

This is totally off topic so please excuse the intrustion.

In the interests of candor, I wanted to point this ever so slight (but significant) debunking of a popular Bush-bashing point by future Pulitzer-prize winner Bob Somerby. There are still 100s of other juicy tidbits, but this "Saddam seeking uranium from Africa" thing might still have legs. Or a foot. Or a toe. Or a toenail ...

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh071204.shtml

8

Josh,

Buckley is simply resorting to a peculiar form of special pleading. He shoots an arrow, draws a circle around it, and calls it a bull’s-eye. The reason we have grammar is so that we will have a means to think about language in order to communicate more effectively. Simply pointing to a hidebound rule or principle from several centuries ago and calling it “proper grammar” is the height of silliness.

It's possible that WFB believes that his class status allows him to define for the rest of us what is “proper” and what is “vulgar” when it comes to language usage. But that's not how it works. He wasn't given a special dispensation to speak and write in a way that fails to adequately convey his thoughts. It would be hypocritical of us to applaud Bill Cosby when he rails against the grammar used by black teenagers when Buckley’s is as convoluted and dense as ebonics.

Like I said, I respect Buckley’s political opinions but he is not the arbiter of what is and is not the proper usage of the English language. The test is how well he can communicate. And from looking at some of his sentences, its obvious that he often fails miserably in that regard.

9

Grammar Nazi!!

(In accordance with Godwin's Law, this discussion is hearby terminated)

10

From dictionary.com:

Combine
n.
1. A power-operated harvesting machine that cuts, threshes, and cleans grain.
2. An association of people or groups united for the furtherance of political or commercial interests.
3. A combination.

Note definition two.

(Although I would definitely agree that the vast bulk of those sentences are truly horrid.)

11

More OT posting (quadruple apologies):

Joe and other Texans who are interested in films dealing with religion: you are very lucky! Bresson's rarely screened 'Au Hazard, Balthazar' is showing in San Antonio. Easily near the top of my top 100 list of all-time favorites.

Bijou at Crossroads Theatre in San Antonio
July 27, 7:30 pm - "Au Hasard Balthazar"

A little donkey is suckled by its mother, then baptized "Balthazar;" a girl and boy say goodbye at the end of summer: a vision of paradise. Years pass and the now-teenaged Marie (Anne Wiazemsky, today a celebrated author) finds herself drifting into more and more destructive situations, including involvement with a local juvenile delinquent; while Balthazar moves from owner to owner, some relatively kind, some cruel, some drunkenly careless. But, as critic J. Hoberman pointed out, "this is the story of a donkey in somewhat the way that Moby Dick is about a whale."

God, as ever in the work of legendary filmmaker Bresson, is in the details: the elliptical editing, with its abrupt cuts, off-screen space, and as much focus on the hands of the nonpro cast as on their faces; sound design alternating between classical music and natural sounds; the accumulation of cruelties endured by Marie and Balthazar; and the religious symbolism, from baptism to martyrdom - with the silent Balthazar transformed into a patient, long-suffering saint ("the most sublime cinematic passage I know." - Hoberman). In a body of work known for its purity and transcendence, "Au Hasard Balthazar" is perhaps the most wrenching of Bresson's visions, voted 19 in the 2002 BFI Sight & Sound critics and filmmakers poll of all-time great films. 95 minutes, Not Rated. Parents' note: this film may be about a donkey, but it is not for children. It deals with adult themes.

[see http://www.tpr.org/articles/cinema.html for links to additional info re the film]

12

i suppose i am what is being labelled a liberal these days (so is ron reagan for that matter), and i have a great amount of respect for intellegent conservative thinkers, not the lock-step neo-cons. aside from his criticism of bush's handling of the war, and how much prosperity it has cost this country, this is one my favorite quotes:

Marijuana never kicks down your door in the middle of the night. Marijuana never locks up sick and dying people, does not suppress medical research, does not peek in bedroom windows. Even if one takes every reefer madness allegation of the prohibitionists at face value, marijuana prohibition has done far more harm to far more people than marijuana ever could.

- William F. Buckley, Jr.

13

tommythecat,

Are you even aware of what a neo-con is?! And Ron Reagan has NEVER been a conservative, so don't trot him out as being "considered liberal". He always has been liberal. Or do you not remember "The Ron Reagan Show", where he spent a lot of time bashing his father's policies? If you don't remember it, don't worry, not many other people do, either. There is a reason it was cancelled.

14

devil,

i was writing that there seems to be a need to label people. either you are for or against us... black and white, conservative or liberal. appreciating an intellegent thinker, even if they come from the opposite end of the spectrum, is a rarity these days. the point i was making about reagan is that he knows a lot about his father's policies and disagrees with SOME of them, yet he is labeled a liberal. WFB has some libertarian leanings, so why isn't he branded a liberal? the marijuanan quote sounds pretty liberal to me.

15

tommythecat,

Many libertarians will tell you one of the only things they have in common with the liberals is the first five letters of their political philosophy. Libertarians are NOT liberal. They may have some common desires with the liberals, but those commonalities are few and far between. I am a conservative with libertarian leanings, but that doesn't mean I agree with ANYTHING the liberals believe.

BTW, a neo-con is generally used to refer to a Jewish liberal who is conservative on the defense of Israel. Hence, new-conservative. And Ron Reagan has been more than critical of a few of his father's programs. According to his older (adopted) brother, Ron has rebelled against just about everything Ronald stood for, since Ron was a teen. I stopped paying attention to Ron once I realized how, um, non-thoughtful he was. Which was about 1 minute into the first time I heard him speak.

On the need to label people, though, labels are not inherently a bad thing. It is only when they are mis-applied that they become bad.

16

I think the deal is, is that Buckley has better English than most college professors and newspaper stylists. So his prose appears odd to those who haven't got a very high grade level in reading (as of say, 100 years ago)

17

"There were several people in the room, a half hour before the president spoke, who are well connected and experienced."

Another thing about this sentence is that WFB uses the past tense "were" and then in the same sentence uses the present tense "are." What's up with *that*?

18

Scratch that and nevermind. I was too quick to criticize. After a moment's reflection I realized that sentence structure does make sense after all. :) It just didn't at first glance.

19

'I am a conservative with libertarian leanings, but that doesn't mean I agree with ANYTHING the liberals believe.'

that would be the black and white thinking I was mentioning...

20

Joe,
As a young conservative I suckled at the nipple of Mr. Buckley's prose, and I contend you have missed the mark completely in your criticisms. Buckley is not an architect whose constructions can be measured and evaluated. He is a force of nature; you are merely picking through the debris. Of course, like the twister, this evidence defies precise adducements; you can only assign them categories, like F5 or F3. I contend the brunt of this force has cut an wide swath through our culture, and you are merely occupying it's aftermath with your slight, but hopeful blog. So sift through remainder if you must, but remember, you had best find a ditch should the storm move in your direction.

And yes, I am leaning far back in my chair, and raising my eyebrows for emphasis as I write this.

21

Jack,

And yes, I am leaning far back in my chair, and raising my eyebrows for emphasis as I write this.

I appreciate your defense of WFB, but let's be honest: if a liberal were to write like that we would mock them mercilessly. Buckley is a great man who, at times, writes some pretentiously bad sentences.

22

Joe,
Actually, I admired Buckley's articulation of ideas when I was a Marxist. I think you have to edelve into a few of his books to get a feel for him. God and Man at Yale perhaps?

23

I defer to no one in my defense of or admiration for Mr. Buckley, but I confess that I too find myself benumbed by his onerous run-on sentences and parenthetical asides admidst an otherwise persuasive argument that is hardly accommodating to distraction, if you would generously permit me an ipse-dixitism, though such arguments admittedly do necessitate on some occasion a measured degree of nuance and sophistry, given the subtext of the debate itself, and further given the elucidation of the listener.

24

Bravo, Kevin! That sentence would make WFB proud. ; )