1

Hi I'm from Australia and we don't use the term GOP. I figure it reffers to the Republicans but what exactly does it mean.

2

Not many people know it: Grand Old Party. It's an affectionate or historical name (as opposed to being an insult or disparagement).

3

When the average black decides that being condescended to by rich, white, leftists yuppies isn't for him/her they'll make the switch.

4

Blacks are smart enough to realize that Republicans do not have their best interests at heart. Republicans practically write off the African-American vote and are left with no reason to pursue a Black-friendly policy (pro-public education, focusing on reducing demand for drugs instead of targeting blacks for incarceration, etc.) Blacks know how the K.K.K. votes. Blacks recognize that for the G.O.P., religion and patriotism are just cover for its blatant bias on behalf of the wealthy. The Republican party is a marriage of the rich and the ignorant, whom they cynically embrace with their "family values" and veiled racism. Most Republicans don't realize they are the lackeys of wealthy Americans who only give lip service and feel-good "legislation lite" to their beliefs.

5

What an insightful treatise on the Republican party, Rob. Tell us how you became such a fount of wisdom.

6

Really, Rob?

If blacks are "smart" enough to realize how the KKK votes, how come they haven't run Senator Byrd out of town on a rail? Hmm....

And if you change "Blacks recognize that..." to "Blacks have been brainwashed to believe that...", then you'll be much closer to reality.

7

I have yet to see a liberal post an insightful, respectful post here. Please tell me that such a person exists on this planet.

8

It's because we're brainwashed. Rob you say Republlicans write off the black vote? Oh my how dellusional we've become. We've basically given our vote over to the Democrats rather mindlessly if you ask me. There is a deeply entrenched false allegience to the Democratic party. I get disgusted by it. To top it off, most black people wouldn't even admit if they did feel a bit conservative for fear of being called "Uncle Tom", "Sambo", "Sell-out" or some other childish epithet.

9

>Republicans practically write off the African-
>American vote and are left with no reason to
>pursue a Black-friendly policy...

Why should they? No matter what they do for the black community, they'll still vote Dem like trained animals. Put your money into the voter blocs that you CAN influence instead of flushing it down the toilet.

And why should Dems give a damn themselves? Blacks will vote for them even if they bring back slavery. Remember from the 1860s to the 1960s the Dems were the Party of the Solid South, of Jim Crow, of Lynchings, and of White Supremacy -- "Segregation Now, Segregation Forever!"

The Ku Klux Klan? Democrats/Dixiecrats.
Bull Connor? Democrat/Dixiecrat.
George Wallace of Ol' Alabam'? Democrat/Dixiecrat.

And blacks still vote for them automatically like Pavlov's dogs...

10

Proof we exist.

11

Rob's post may have been overly harsh, but there's a kernel of truth to it. The truth is that neither party does much to court the African-American vote, but that most African-Americans view the Democratic party as the least of evils. Why? Because on civil rights issues, the Democratic party is FAR more likely to be on their side than the GOP.

On religious issue, African-Americans are more likely to align with the GOP; but religious issues are less a government matter and more a personal matter, so as long as the Democrats don't interfere with their religious practices, they won't hold that against the Democrats.

The Republican party is also working (intentionally or not, depending on your level of cynicism) to undermine the public education system, and African-Americans as a group are highly supportive of public education. That, more than anything else, represents their opportunity to get ahead, and the GOP wants to gut it. (Voucher referenda in California and Michigan failed by a 2:1 margin, despite the pro-voucher people outspending the anti-voucher people by a MUCH wider margin. Among African-American voters, the ratio against vouchers was closer to 3:1).

Of course, it's fairly condescending to talk about an entire race as though it were a single group of people. African-Americans are a diverse group, encompassing virtually the entire socioeconomic spectrum. But at the same time, it cannot be denied that poverty is far more pervasive within the African-American community that it is within America at large.

So while both parties are lacking on minority issues, which party's policies are more likely to appeal to the poor, and to minorities? Easily the Democratic party. Does the Democratic party have room to improve on racial and civil rights issues? Absolutely. But it's still worlds ahead of the Republican party. You can thank Nixon's Southern Strategy for that.

So despite Joe's suggestion that African-Americans vote Democratic "against their best interests," I submit that African-Americans voting for Republicans is akin to chickens voting for Colonel Sanders.

12

Ken:

And when the "Dixiecrats" folded, where did they go? Not back to the Democratic party. They went to the GOP. Thurmond? Helms? GOP.

David:

The Byrd reference is ancient history. It would be different if he had never apologized or made penance for the errors of his past, but Byrd has long since recanted his previous views, and his voting record on civil rights is far from that of a racist. Or are you saying it's not possible for people to change?

13

"No matter what they [Republicans] do for the black community, they'll still vote Dem like trained animals. Put your money into the voter blocs that you CAN influence instead of flushing it down the toilet.

And why should Dems give a damn themselves? Blacks will vote for them even if they bring back slavery. Remember from the 1860s to the 1960s the Dems were the Party of the Solid South, of Jim Crow, of Lynchings, and of White Supremacy -- "Segregation Now, Segregation Forever!"
...And blacks still vote for them automatically like Pavlov's dogs..."
Very eloquent, Ken. You've epitomized the Republican attitude toward blacks.
I notice you like to remember the racist past of the Democratic party. Nostalgic, are we? Just stay with the party that represents racists NOW, not 40 years ago.
"What an insightful treatise on the Republican party, Rob. Tell us how you became such a fount of wisdom."
I read a lot.
"I have yet to see a liberal post an insightful, respectful post here. Please tell me that such a person exists on this planet."
Your first sentence establishes the unassailability of your opinion, so I won't bother responding to the second.
I am not black. I only know that the black people of my acquaintance tell me that they vote for the individual or party they feel will best represent their interests. I'm sure this is the same criterion used by most voters.

14

Rob, read their entire posts and quit quoting out of context, please. And instead of going off some tirade, wating for the angry responses to come rolling in, and coming back like Mr. Enlightened Mind when you can quote them out of context, maybe you should actually say something truthful and constructive...

"And why should Dems give a damn themselves? Blacks will vote for them even if they bring back slavery. Remember from the 1860s to the 1960s the Dems were the Party of the Solid South, of Jim Crow, of Lynchings, and of White Supremacy -- "Segregation Now, Segregation Forever!"

"'...And blacks still vote for them automatically like Pavlov's dogs...' Very eloquent, Ken. You've epitomized the Republican attitude toward blacks."

You illustrate ability to completely by in to a stereotype and and mis-quote someone. Let's separate race from demographic, shall we. It is fairly common knowledge that the majority black vote is very reliably Democrat, varying little with income, region, and any number of variables. Taking the white vote into account, you can find a far larger variance of political opinions, even among the middle class. What all of this demonstrates is a rather blind or reflexive loyalty to the Democratic party on the part of black demographic. And that has everything to the choices of communities and individuals, not race.

It is also a trend that seems almost impossible to change, no matter how much persuasion is tried. So, in point of fact, why should the GOP give damn, pragmattically speaking? They only have so much time and so much paitence to try and woo that voting bloc. So far, for all the effort that has been sunk, and with such paltry return on effort, that time could be better spent on more responsive demongraphics.

"I notice you like to remember the racist past of the Democratic party. Nostalgic, are we? Just stay with the party that represents racists NOW, not 40 years ago."

No, it's another type of racism. Seeing a person a by race first and then crippling them with race-bating rhetoric, telling them that they're victims and they're entitled to "fair treatment" (should read special treatment). Those that do want to succeed and make their own, not giving a damn about victim status or not are told to shut up and get back in line, so to speak. I have a feeling less of those Dixiecrats left the party than most people think.

Am I painting it broadly? Yes. There are many exceptions and variations to the above picture, but it's the OVERALL picture. The reason why the more conservative branches of the GOP are portrayed as being racist is because they don't appease the whiners. People are selfish and when you spoil them for an extended period of time and then take it away, they whine. With the welfare state, the segments of the imporverished and minorities have been spoiled, without true means or tools to lift themselves from their conditions. The conservative wing of the GOP thinks the welfare state is a waste and a pointless burden. They want to take it away. A lot of people whine.

In that climate, it's easy to portray them as heartless racist bastards. It isn't that their racist, it's that conservatives, many Republicans among them, don't give a @#^%$#@$*&&%$ about race. If you are suffering or in need or my friend, I am not going to care what your race or your culture is. I grew up exposed dozens of different natioanlties from every corner of the globe and I love being exposed to different cultures. I enjoy it when a person is able to speak their mother tongue without fear or stigma. And that is the whole point. Democrats would pison the well with issues that haven't had relevance in twenty years, minimum, dividing us into petty little cliques. That does more damage to America than you can imagine.

Sir, you anger me. And it isn't your opinions. What you and every other liberal who comes around here doesn't seem to get is that you don't actually do any debating. You don't add to the public discourse. Nothing of substance comes from your statements. Is all that sufficiently stated?
The last liberal I got into a "discussion" with made no assertions or points at all, beyond simple name calling. It wasn't satire. It wasn't sarcasm. Both of those can at least illustrate. Let me say it one more time. IT ACHIEVES NOTHING!!!!!

You, at least, have made an undefended assertion. Something that is indentifiable and can be responded to, but you still do it smugly and dishonestly. Oh, and I am not a Republican, so save the insults for someone else.

15

Tgirsh said

"But at the same time, it cannot be denied that poverty is far more pervasive within the African-American community that it is within America at large."

Um, er, actually I recall a thread on this blog a month or two ago where several people felt very strongly that the above statement grossly misrepresented the economic status of African Americans.

16

David says

"People are selfish and when you spoil them for an extended period of time and then take it away, they whine."

Yep, that's the number one problem in America: whining. And who's the number one whiner? David Marcoe.

Of course.

17

David:

What you and every other liberal who comes around here doesn't seem to get is that you don't actually do any debating. You don't add to the public discourse. Nothing of substance comes from your statements. Is all that sufficiently stated? The last liberal I got into a "discussion" with made no assertions or points at all, beyond simple name calling. It wasn't satire. It wasn't sarcasm. Both of those can at least illustrate. Let me say it one more time. IT ACHIEVES NOTHING!!!!!

Whoa, whoa, whoa! Dude, have you ever listened to Limbaugh or Hannity? If the "Left" is guilty of baseless, unsubstantiated attack-speak, then the "right" (at least as evidenced by the aforementioned and Rove) has refined this into an art form...

18

I have to say, after reading all these posts, that I am a little perplexed.

The is so much left-right, liberal-conservative, racist-no, you're the racist accusation here that it sounds more like a beer commercial.

Tastes Great! - Less Filling!

2 entrenched sides with their own Dogma.

I don't know about you, put I find that no single party speaks for me. I do not find my worth or focus or affirmation in the party I belong to. I do my own research, I read all I can and I form my own opinions. I let the past be the past and the present the present and try to discern substance and truth from name calling and spin. There are republican policies that hurt me and democratic policies that hurt me. There are democratic policies that help me and republican policies that help me. The left rants, the right rants and no one has a claim to the moral high ground. We are wallowing in our politics, like pigs in the mud.

I am not upset about civil rights, why? Because the law says we are equal and anyone, ANYONE, who works hard and applies themselves can make a way in life. I am not upset about slavery, why? because there are no more slaves in this country. I am not upset about medieval barony and serfdom either, for the same reasons. I am not upset about the problem in education, because it is no one elses responsibility but mine to make sure my children have what they need. I am not upset about the KKK and the dixiecrats, why? because they have proven themselves for the idiocy they were and have faded away.

I reject the notion that all whites are rich and insensitive. I reject the notion that all blacks are poor and on welfare. I reject the notion that all republicans are corporation loving planet destroyers and I reject the notion that all Dems just have my best interests at heart. I reject the notion that all republicans are rush dittoing or Hannity spewing eggheads and I reject the notion that the democratic party doesn't call anybody names. These postings sound less like intellectual discussion than inquisition era witch accusations.

What I am trying to say is this, instead of sitting in ditches and throwing barbs at each other with no gain made on either side, we should logically and truthfully look at all the facts and figure out what the truth is. Not the truth for ourselves, but the real truth. There is no such thing as different truth for different people, there is only one, and if we can find it, then we will assuredly know what path we are supposed to go down and we will not be swayed by others rhetoric, nor feel the need to justify our own beliefs to others to prove their validity.

And once we can do that, we won't see people by color or side or status, we will see people as people and begin to work for the same goals and make progress where none is being made now. Instead of being an Us and Them country, we would be America again. Isn't that what we really want anyway?

19

"There are millions of black Republicans in America, according to Bishop R T Jones, a leading member of the party in Philadelphia. There is only one catch: they vote Democrat."

Is this really true, though? Many african-americans are notfiscally conservative or in favor of a smaller government. A lot of people seem to weigh aspects of the two party together and decide that they will vote on the basis of things other than their personal values. For example, a libertarian might vote Republican, even though he is socially liberal. My question is, would having conservative views on what are essentially fringe issues that have been magnified to huge proportions in recent years (abortion, homosexual marriage) make you a conservative if you also believed in say, universal health care and a larger, more visible government?

20

KM:

"I am not upset about the KKK and the dixiecrats, why? because they have proven themselves for the idiocy they were and have faded away."

Really? So the FBI considers the KKK a benign organization at this point in time? Wow. News to me. What's your source for this information?

"I reject the notion that all whites are rich and insensitive."

Who said they were?

"I reject the notion that all blacks are poor and on welfare."

Huh? Well, okay. But where did you find this notion expressed in the first place?

"I reject the notion that all republicans are rush dittoing or Hannity spewing eggheads"

Do you admit, then, that Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity are lying idiots? Or do they stroke your fur more often than not so you happily put up with their baloney?

"I reject the notion that the democratic party doesn't call anybody names."

Who said that the Democratic Party doesn't call anybody names? And who cares if they do?

"Instead of being an Us and Them country, we would be America again."

What do you mean "again"? Do you mean like 100 years ago when blacks and women couldn't vote?

"There is no such thing as different truth for different people, there is only one, and if we can find it, then we will assuredly know what path we are supposed to go down"

Wow, that is quite naive. If only we could travel into the future, then I would have less difficulty dismissing your self-righteous "above it all" diatribes.

21

I realize I might have been generalizing a little bit. I was basing it on many members of my own extended family , who, while religious and socially conservative like many first-generation immigrant families from South Asia, still vote Democrat and absolutely abhor the GOP while simultaneously sharing many Republican values.

22

KM:
I am not upset about the problem in education, because it is no one elses responsibility but mine to make sure my children have what they need.

So if a lot more of your property tax dollars are going to support a shiny new school in a well-to-do neighborhood that your children are not allowed to attend, than are spent on the run-down school that YOUR kids have to attend, you have NO problem with this? Because that's how it currently works. But hey, it's not your problem if your tax dollars are benefiting other people's children a lot more than they benefit your own...