1

Of course you would be just as harsh if they were in fact an alcoholic and not a pot head....

I've been around hundreds of drunks and a few stoners at college. Give me the stoners any day. They're usually far more passive and easy going.

Of course, being an evangelical Christian you find it easy to make what others do in their own homes your personal business. Evangelical Christianity's dirty secret is that it can trace its roots back all the way to John Calvin, the founder of the first true totalitarian state in Europe. You people trained them commies and fascists good.....

2

Mike, I'd quit before you fall too far behind. Perhaps Joe is being too harsh, and perhaps...well, I'll just admit that he is. Yet, you are sadly misinformed about Calvin's Geneva. This is hardly surprising, since Catholics, High Church Anglicans, secularists, liberals, and assorted others have spend centuries perpetuating lies about Calvin, mostly in rank ignorance of the facts. If you honestly think that Geneva 1550 was totalitarian, I would suggest you go to your local library and read up on the history of that fair city. Here are a few questions to get you started:
(1) Did John Calvin have any civil power in the state of Geneva?
(2) For how many years was the City Council of Geneva hostile to John Calvin, attempting to obstruct his efforts?
(3) Just what role DID Calvin play in the trial of Michael Serverus, anyway?
(4) What individual attempted to have the court make Serverus' punishment more humane?
(5) Did Calvin ever manage to gain citizenship in Geneva? And what kind of power did non-citizens have in Geneva, anyway?
(6) Just how many lies were made up about Calvin, anyway, to prevent individuals from embracing the Reformed faith? For instance, one popular accusation is that Calvin, in his Commentary on Genesis, said that Copernicus must be wrong because of that verse in the Psalm 93:1. Yet apparently Calvin cleverly censored his own book before it was published, since he never mentioned Copernicus, nor Psalm 93, anywhere in it.
(7) Was it actually true that children were put to death for cursing or hitting their parents in Geneva? Or is this another lie?
(8) How much power did Calvin have over even Church Law, anyway? After all, he is well known for thinking that Communion ought to be celebrated weekly - yet the Reformed Church in Geneva celebrated it monthly. Why is this?
(9) It is notorious that wherever Calvinism spread, so did capitalism, egalitarianism, industry, scientific endeavor, and democracy. Is it really possible that a religion that spread democracy and egalitarianism everywhere it went was actually involved in some kind of totalitarian theocracy at its very genesis? Gosh, how ironic that would be!

3

I guess satire is dead to some people if they can't read it as such. That was funny...

4

Here I was enjoy the post as satire...until Mike went and ruined it all for me. Now I have to mourn over how harsh and mean-spirited Joe really is.

Bummer.

5

Hey, there's no need to go dragging Catholics into this, hopalong, unless you want a dust up.

6

When the stoner is going to be out for more than a short time, change the locks and move the contents of his room to the garage or the front lawn.

As far as Calvin, the link above goes to an article on Calvin and Geneva:

With the help of Bern, it succeeded. By this time Bern had adopted the Reformation; and Geneva, under Bernese influence and primarily for political reasons, followed suit. The councils took over church property and the control of morals and religion. In February 1536, a comprehensive proclamation was issued for the regulation of moral and religious practices. It prohibited blasphemy and profanity; cards and dice; the protection of adulterers, thieves, vagabonds, and spendthrifts; excessive drinking; and all holidays except Sunday. All inhabitants were ordered to attend sermons, but the Mass and the Roman Catholic sacraments were forbidden. Thus a spirit of intolerance and of strict regulation of private conduct was firmly established before Calvin's arrival.

(3)
In August, he appeared in Geneva on his way to Italy. Here he was recognized, and the news of his presence was conveyed to Calvin, who had him arrested. On the basis of charges preferred by Calvin, Servetus was put on trial. The trial was carried on by the civil authorities, but the accusations were all based on Servetus's writings and theology. Much of the proceedings consisted of direct encounters between Servetus and Calvin himself, during which Calvin was not always fair or just. The same can be said of the civil authorities, who refused Servetus's request for counsel and kept him imprisoned under filthy and uncomfortable conditions.

As far as (9), I don't see democracy or egalitarianism being spread by Calvinism - it might be that Calvinism flourished (given the greater industry, thrift, and dedication of its adherents) in areas where discovery and capitalism flourished.

7

Mike,

Do the words "Martin Luther" mean anything to you?

8

Wow, people like this still exist?

9

GE,
Don't take it personally - I'm a Reformed Thomist, if you can believe it (perhaps I ought to just say "Augustinian" which seems to be somewhere in between the two). I'm fond of Catholics, and sometimes downright admiring of the RCC, but it is a fact that all sorts of people made up things about Calvin, and Catholics were one of many on the list of those who did this (or maybe you're upset by the company I listed Catholics with - my apologies for that!).

tz,
I probably went overboard in my post, I tend to do that. However, two points: (1) Regarding the trial, my point was that Calvin didn't "try" Servetus, as some try to say; rather his main role was as the theological witness (and later, asking the council to behead him rather than burn him). There are probably details I don't know, though (although it is relevant to know that Geneva had only two main punishments: exile and execution. They didn't have a permanent prison). (2) Yes, in fact, Calvinism did spread egalitariansim and democracy. The first is more obvious than the other, and is due to Calvinism's dislike for hierarchy. This doesn't mean that egalitarianism by the modern standard, ie sexual equality etc, but just a spirit of egalitarianism in which no one was supposed to be seen as better than others. This may have also gone into the nice match with democracy. Calvin thought it was a decent government, from what I know, but favored a mixture of democracy and aristocracy, where the people selected those who would rule. I've also been told that the Reformed Church in Geneva also was organized somewhat democratically, although I am not sure what elements were democratic.

The Reformed Churches also tended to support the sciences, but (unfortunately, and possibly tellingly for the organization of the Reformed Church) scientific inquiry seemed to flourish amongst those who were not genuine Calvinists - people who didn't hold to some or several of the main points of Calvinism (Heck, Ben Franklin, when he went to Church at all, went to a Presbyterian Church).